Even if you drive everywhere instead of walking, there are people in town who use the sidewalks to walk to the train, to school, or even - gasp - to run errands or for recreation/exercise. So why don't you get off your lazy asses and clear away some of the white stuff! If you are too lazy or infirm to do it yourself, then either hire someone to do it for you, or move into a condo.

Show a little basic consideration for your neighbors.

With this thread started, I have a question that has been bothering me.

I always shovel the walk. Mostly because I have control issues and like to see everything uniform. SOme of my neighbors asked why I spend the extra time. First, I thought it was a village ordinance. Second, it is a nice thing to do. Their arguement is a legel one. They say if you shovel the sidewalks and someone falls you are responsible because you decided what was safe enough. By not shovelling you have no liability.

Responses?

The ugly condo building....sorry....the condo building on the corner of Park and Crescent...they never shovel their walks on the Crescent side or the Park side. Whatever the residents are paying in monthly assessment fees....they aren't getting their money's worth. They never pick up the garbage in their garden, either.

Rant over.

I feel bad. We have no sidewalks.
Fish or Fan should be able to answer the liability question.

quote:

Originally posted by M:
Their arguement is a legel one. They say if you shovel the sidewalks and someone falls you are responsible because you decided what was safe enough. By not shovelling you have no liability.

Responses?

745 ILCS 75/2

Any owner, lessor, occupant or other person in charge of any residential property, or any agent of or other person engaged by any such party, who removes or attempts to remove snow or ice from sidewalks abutting the property shall not be liable for any personal injuries allegedly caused by the snowy or icy condition of the sidewalk resulting from his or her acts or omissions unless the alleged misconduct was willful or wanton.

So tell your neighbors to get off their lazy - and ignorant - asses and extend a little courtesy.

Who needs Fish or Fan?
Thanks Dins.
BTW I did our driveway so don't yell at me.

Dins,

First I agree with you. It is inconsiderate. However, you and I and most everyone who lives in this town do NOT own the sidewalk. Just like we do NOT own the parkway or street. Why should we take responsibility to maintain it? We have as much responsibility to maintain the sidewalk as we do to maintain the street....which is none. The better question is why the heck doesn't the village plow our sidewalks?

quote:

Originally posted by Arten:
Who needs Fish or Fan?
Thanks Dins.
BTW I did our driveway so don't yell at me.

The only people that find themselves at your house are lost...and that includes you!

I knew you didn't stop here on purpose.

Dinsdale,

Do you allow a grace period from the end of the last snow fall to shovel the new snow?

Are you complaining that everyone did not get up this morning to shovel the sidewalks before you had to use the sidewalk to walk to the train?

quote:

Originally posted by Arten:
Who needs Fish or Fan?
Thanks Dins.
BTW I did our driveway so don't yell at me.

BTW...you did not do YOUR driveway.....

I hate to admit when you're right Fish

quote:

Originally posted by Dinsdale:

quote:

Originally posted by M:
Their arguement is a legel one. They say if you shovel the sidewalks and someone falls you are responsible because you decided what was safe enough. By not shovelling you have no liability.

Responses?

745 ILCS 75/2

Any owner, lessor, occupant or other person in charge of any residential property, or any agent of or other person engaged by any such party, who removes or attempts to remove snow or ice from sidewalks abutting the property shall not be liable for any personal injuries allegedly caused by the snowy or icy condition of the sidewalk resulting from his or her acts or omissions unless the alleged misconduct was willful or wanton.

So tell your neighbors to get off their lazy - and ignorant - asses and extend a little courtesy.

Not entirely true. You can be held liable if you create an unnatural accumulation of the snow or ice on the premises. Legally, you are best off by not shoveling at all. Practically, shovel...but at your own pace.

I shoveling (blew) the hell out of my driveway and sidewalks last night around 7:30. This morning, it looked like I did nothing. I wasn't about to undertake that task again this morning. Maybe tonight...maybe never.

quote:

Originally posted by Sherlock:
Dinsdale,

Do you allow a grace period from the end of the last snow fall to shovel the new snow?

Are you complaining that everyone did not get up this morning to shovel the sidewalks before you had to use the sidewalk to walk to the train?

Not at all, Sherlock. The same folks who hadn't shoveled/blown this morning, hadn't shoveled/blown yesterday morning when I was walking to the train or last evening when I was coming home either.

I imagine folks might disagree, but it seems pretty obvious to me that when it snows over a prolonged period such as yesterday, a person who wishes to clear his/her walks will need to do them more than once. For one thing, shovelling during the snow lessens the snow that needs to be removed at any one time. Add to that the fact that if you wait until it has been trodden down, you won't be able to remove it as effectively.

In any event, speaking from 10 years of experience in this town, I could give the addresses of several homeowners who NEVER shovel their walks. This morning proved to be no exception. Despite the residents of at least some of these homes appearing to be younger than I, and with school-age children.

Fish, I'm sure we would disagree in our views regarding certain aspects of property ownership/responsibilities re: sidewalks. But I'm not really interested in debating that. I will say, however, that for the taxes we pay we should get sidewalk plowing and leaf pick-up like they get in gold-plated burbs like Wilmette. I have never been able to identify the services GE residents receive for the amount of taxes we pay.

quote:

Originally posted by GE Fan:
Not entirely true. You can be held liable if you create an unnatural accumulation of the snow or ice on the premises. Legally, you are best off by not shoveling at all.

I respectfully disagree. I suggest that the "willful and wanton" language in the statute would provide considerable protection except for in the most unusual circumstances. Of course, it never pays to underestimate the creativity of PI lawyers trying ot make a buck for unreasonable clients...

So, assuming someone does do their walks as well as their driveways, where are they supposed to dump the snow? I've got to admit I was not happy driving down Park this morning to the train and finding folks snowblowing their way into the street. Made for some interesting driving. Kind of made me hope for the Village to come by and make sure the street plows dumped a lot of snow right on the end of their driveway.

Also, I grew up in Chicago - we always shoveled the walk, and I do so now. Unless I deliberately create a greater hazard, I believe I'm legally not at risk.

I promise to shovel our sidewalk this afernoon...I am still recovering from excavating the cement-like mountain that the plow left at the end of our driveway!

quote:

Originally posted by darlili:
So, assuming someone does do their walks as well as their driveways, where are they supposed to dump the snow?

That's something each individual ought to consider - among countless other factors - when considering buying a particular piece of property. And something I often wonder about when I see homes in the currently popular style with looong driveways stretching to detached garages at the rear of the lots.

I thought blowing the snow into the street was a no-no. Now you're creating a potential problem far worse than the sidewalks.

quote:

Originally posted by M:
I thought blowing the snow into the street was a no-no. Now you're creating a potential problem far worse than the sidewalks.

I would agree, tho I plead near complete ignorance as to our village's ordinances. And in my experience the apparent plain language of particular ordinances may have little or nothing to do with how they are applied/enforced in our fair town.

But § 8-1-15(B) seems at least relevant:

It shall be unlawful to deposit upon any village street, alley or other improved roadway snow or ice in quantities sufficient to create a hazard or impede village snow removal efforts.

(The code is available and searchable on-line on the village's official site.)