quote:

Originally posted by Hyoog:
First of all, my comments weren't at all directed towards C. George's home's quality and style; and I wasn't attacking the guy personally. If someone understood it that way, I'm sorry, but you're wrong. My comment was and continues to be that C. George Builders started construction on a bunch of sites around town and has left them completely abandoned!

Thanks for the clarification. I fully agree. This was the initial - and remains the primary - basis for my negative opinion of this particular builder.

And you are correct, the village allows builders to act in this manner. But not every builder does.

I have an idea: in the spirit of the distressed credit market, investors ought to bid something like $.10 on the dollar for abandoned properties. The village should act as a facilitator to force the hand of the negligent builder because a sale would (theoretically) put the property in the hands of someone who would complete the project for themselves or resell it.

With this math, I'd bid George $10 of par for the property on Montclair (or around $85K). Sure would save the villlage and the neighbors of that house a lot of pain.

Would I be allowed to buy the property that the abandoned gas station sits on at Five Corners? Rumor has it that the ghost of Moses Stacy throws up in his bony mouth every time he rides by that shameful piece of crap. Of course, his mandibles do go up and down in a chuckling motion when he looks at the Glen Ellyn Style banner next to it. Moses does have a sense of humor, after all.

quote:

Originally posted by Hyoog:
I have an idea: in the spirit of the distressed credit market, investors ought to bid something like $.10 on the dollar for abandoned properties. The village should act as a facilitator to force the hand of the negligent builder because a sale would (theoretically) put the property in the hands of someone who would complete the project for themselves or resell it.

With this math, I'd bid George $10 of par for the property on Montclair (or around $85K). Sure would save the villlage and the neighbors of that house a lot of pain.

My guess would be you'd need to deal with the bankrupcy court to purchase these properties. Might be worth an inquiry. Would be a lot of red tape and lawyers though.

That, and the racoon poop, water damage, etc. cleanup would be troublesome.

quote:
_________________________________________________________________________________________________
Originally posted by Hyoog:
First of all, my comments weren't at all directed towards C. George's home's quality and style; and I wasn't attacking the guy personally. If someone understood it that way, I'm sorry, but you're wrong. My comment was and continues to be that C. George Builders started construction on a bunch of sites around town and has left them completely abandoned!
_________________________________________________________________________________________________

The Montclair house has not been abandoned and has been undergoing construction. There have been workers in and out of there for the last couple of months. There is also work going on with his other projects. None of his projects have been abandoned.

To my knowledge, none of his projects are in bankruptcy, and he has taken on partners in some cases in order to complete his projects. He's seen this forum, and his intentions were never (and are not) to leave any unfinished properties. Some people here make it sound like he chose to begin and then stop these projects. That's ludicrous. There's no financial gain in delaying a project, especially when there are interest payments involved.

As I mentioned before, his divorce took its toll, and it's not my place to go any further than that, but I will tell you that he has worked hard to complete many of his projects in the most expedient manner that he could with his situation, which actually has improved greatly. He is not the first builder or business person to run into this situation. He is working very hard to finish up his existing projects, so cut the guy a little slack. He has conducted himself very honorably with purchasers that became inadverdently caught up in these delays.

Additionally, what are all the different "abandoned" sites? I know what projects he still has in hand in GE, and it's not many.

I can also tell you, (and I may have before), that he does not control the finances in the Duane Street project, and that he is a minimal partner in the Duane Street project. I've seen an artistic drawing of the project, and for what it's worth, it looks great, doesn't have turrets, and is a very familiar and classic style that most people will find appealing, and would certainly fit well on Duane Street. I may already have overstepped my bounds here, but George told me that his partners have a timetable on the project, and he has milestones that have to be met as the builder of the project. If that project goes through, there shouldn't be any issues with the speed of construction. I think people need to lighten up a bit here, especially when you don't know the entire story.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: KW,

Thanks for the update and explanation. It is good to see that he is working to improve on his performance with respect his timeliness.

Well, I personally thank you for taking the time to post this at 2:45AM and then fluff it up like a comfy pillow at 4:25AM. It always amazes me how late a lot of you stay up...or how early you get up. You seem very passionate and intimately knowledgeable about this subject, and your pal George is lucky to have a friend like you.

With regard to whether or not someone is in bankruptcy....who cares, right? If people really are interested in that, there are various places to look that up on the internet. If I'm not mistaken...it is all public record. You can even go to www.dupagecase.com and find some basic info.

The rowhouse idea...I have no problem with them. Anything that could possibly replace those eyesores is fine with me, including green space. Also, I hear that the owner may or may not have been allowing homeless people live in those homes. Not sure if that is true or not (anyone have any knowledge about this? I had heard the folks across the street were not happy with this situation...may have been a while ago, though), but we have already had a situation near my home that proved that this may not be a very good idea. I'm no longer comfortable with that kind of charity. Call me cold and heartless...but it was evident that the village and the property owner didn't handle that situation very well.

It really all boils down to this for me. I really, really, really like my kids to clean up one mess prior to making another. I see no reason why anyone should be allowed to start another project when he has so many toys strewn about town. Keep in mind...this is not a village rule or law...just my personal opinion.

I don't know the man but I wish him the best of luck...just like a would any other person doing business in Glen Ellyn. But I also urge him to clean up his present projects before starting a new one. Again...just my personal opinion.

quote:

Originally posted by KW:
Additionally, what are all the different "abandoned" sites? I know what projects he still has in hand in GE, and it's not many.

How long has the home on Turner E of Park been under construction? When is the last time any meaningful progress has been made on that property? Why should neighbors who have had to view that eyesore for many many years care less about the developer's personal life or financial health?

Ditto on the Montclaire home.

Was VERY pleased (and surprised) however, to see the home on Prospect appears to have been finished.

How many other homes by other builders have gone from start to finish, during the time these projects have remained mired in the dumpster/portapotty stage?

Anyone near a C. George project will be used to the SOP, where days/weeks/months go by with no activity. Then you'll have one or 2 workmen show up, often on weekends or evenings, and hear a lone hammer or 2 pounding away. Or the house will get partly sided or painted and then progress will stop and it will sit in an unfinished stage for months if not years. As opposed to the majority of responsible projects where, although there are delays, when it is time to side the project, a sufficient crew shows up and sides the darned thing. Ditto for roofing, painting, etc.

And, nothing more than a thoroughly anecdotal opinion, but no builder maintains consistently messier work-sites than this guy.

I think Clam makes a good point about cleaning up your existing messes before starting new ones. This guy doesn't.

quote:

Originally posted by Dinsdale:

quote:

Originally posted by KW:
Additionally, what are all the different "abandoned" sites? I know what projects he still has in hand in GE, and it's not many.

Why should neighbors who have had to view that eyesore for many many years care less about the developer's personal life or financial health?

I know that you are having trouble grasping this and you have made it quite clear that you don't care. Are you a collections agent? You would be quite qualified at showing up at funerals and attempting to acquire money from the families of the deceased.

I think I explained this before, but George hit a rough patch in his life (divorce) that impacted his financial health (banks tend to freeze up when they hear that word, even when you have in-process construction loans), which then negatively impacted his projects. When he was going through his divorce, some or all of his loans were called or frozen, which makes it very difficult (impossible) to access money.

So, if your flow of money has been stopped or greatly impeded, you are going to have a hell of a time completing your projects, aren't you? If you have a way around this, let me know, because I'm going to get into the construction business if there is a way to build homes without having to put any money into them. Obviously, when money becomes available, he would work on the projects until that flow stopped. That would explain the sporadic nature of his projects.

So, while I guess that you don't have to care about his situation, a little common sense goes a long way in understanding it.

quote:

How many other homes by other builders have gone from start to finish, during the time these projects have remained mired in the dumpster/portapotty stage?

Does it really matter? We're not comparing apples to apples here.

quote:

Anyone near a C. George project will be used to the SOP, where days/weeks/months go by with no activity. Then you'll have one or 2 workmen show up, often on weekends or evenings, and hear a lone hammer or 2 pounding away. Or the house will get partly sided or painted and then progress will stop and it will sit in an unfinished stage for months if not years. As opposed to the majority of responsible projects where, although there are delays, when it is time to side the project, a sufficient crew shows up and sides the darned thing. Ditto for roofing, painting, etc.

It has nothing to do with being responsible or not. It has to do with the flow of money. And I think that you're exaggerating here a bit.

As evidenced by the recent activity on C. George's projects, his financial situation is much improved and progress is being made on his homes. To his credit, he's always made people whole throughout this process and hasn't defaulted on any payments or loans. Considering his situation, he's worked awfully hard to NOT abandon his projects and leave anybody hanging on a limb.

See how that works? When his financial health was poor, projects were sporadic or stalled. Now that his financial health has improved, the projects are moving again. Makes sense, doesn't it?

Hi,

With all due respect KW, I think it is you who is missing the point. If Dinsdale comes across to you as sounding like a bill collector; you should know that to an unbiased reader (me) you come across as sounding like you are really C. George himself!

For goodness sakes, imagine how depressing, tiring, and dangerous it would be to have to live next door to one of these developments. I'd be a nervous wreck with a half-done house sitting empty next door, collecting water and debris. Not a pleasant environment for neighborhood kids. Come on, surely you will concede that the true losers here are the neighbors who have had to live with it while C. George works out his personal problems.

And they are just that - personal problems. I sincerely feel bad for him if his life was turned upside down through a divorce. That sucks. But it is still no excuse for others who are negatively affected by it (just because they happened to live there) and who are rightfully pissed. Part of being a builder is that you must plan for all the 'what-ifs' such as a housing downturn, a Plan-B in case someone gets sick, etc. etc. Sounds to me like he failed to do that.

Living next to unfinished projects wouldn't be pleasant, I agree. But if your flow of funding is unexpectedly shut down, how do you plan for that?

How do you create a contingency for a divorce? Things happen in our lives, that are beyond our control and cause problems that are unexpected. If we could all plan for the unexpected as efficiently as you suggest, and we all had the funds to do it, that would be fantastic. But you're living in a dreamworld. Any builder or businessman will plan for what they can, but you certainly can't compensate for everything.

In hindsight, it's really easy to say that you should have planned for this or that.

I feel bad for the neighbors of those projects, but it certainly isn't something that George chose to do. What gain does a builder have in stopping a project? And how do builders, or any other businessmen for that matter, plan for all of the what-if's. If you have the answer, I'd love to know.

And if you have it, definitely let all those *******s in the U.S. who have allowed or are facing foreclosure on their homes know. I mean, I feel bad that they are going to lose their homes and all, but that's no excuse for their neighbors (the real victims) who are going to be negatively affected by it, having to watch these empty homes next to them fall into disrepair with grass and weeds growing untamed.

By the way, what degree of economic downturn should builders plan for?

You know, by reading these pages, you'd think that George has 20 projects going on (he has only 4 I believe, which all should be completed by the fall),and has intentionally stopped them in order to piss of the neighbors (not the case). I'm only posting because I have a pretty good idea of his situation, he's a friend, and it kind of sucks to watch a few people bash someone when they have no idea what the underlying story is. If anyone is truly concerned by the situation and would like to know about the status of these projects and when they will be rectified, contact George and ask him.

Perception=Reality.

quote:

Originally posted by Clamato:


With regard to whether or not someone is in bankruptcy....who cares, right? If people really are interested in that, there are various places to look that up on the internet. If I'm not mistaken...it is all public record. You can even go to www.dupagecase.com and find some basic info.

We affluent people of DuPage County have it made. Hell, we have so much money we don't even have a bankruptcy court...no need for it!

quote:

Originally posted by KW:
How do you create a contingency for a divorce? Things happen in our lives, that are beyond our control and cause problems that are unexpected.

So if my marriage and financial situation are healthy, and impose no burdens on my neighbors, that is beyond my control as well?

And if nearly every other builder is able to timely finish what he starts, that is beyond their control as well?

If his situation turned such that he could not afford to finish his projects, he could have sold them to someone who could (even if it meant - gasp - he would take a loss, or did not profit as mush as he wished.)

And lets not artifically limit the discussion to the 4 (your number) projects he has in progress at the moment. We could also discuss the oak trees he destroyed on Hillside, adjacent neighbors whose trees and property were damaged by his grading and excavation, purchasers of his homes who had significant problems upon taking possession.

You think I am exaggerating about the pace of his projects? You are mistaken. I know some people who live within view of one of his projects, and I have personally had the opportunity to view it on at least a weekly basis for these past 3 or 4 (perhaps more) years. I am not exaggerating in the least.

quote:

Originally posted by MaybeNotSoCoveted:
Hi,

With all due respect KW, I think it is you who is missing the point. If Dinsdale comes across to you as sounding like a bill collector; you should know that to an unbiased reader (me) you come across as sounding like you are really C. George himself!

For goodness sakes, imagine how depressing, tiring, and dangerous it would be to have to live next door to one of these developments. I'd be a nervous wreck with a half-done house sitting empty next door, collecting water and debris. Not a pleasant environment for neighborhood kids. Come on, surely you will concede that the true losers here are the neighbors who have had to live with it while C. George works out his personal problems.

And they are just that - personal problems. I sincerely feel bad for him if his life was turned upside down through a divorce. That sucks. But it is still no excuse for others who are negatively affected by it (just because they happened to live there) and who are rightfully pissed. Part of being a builder is that you must plan for all the 'what-ifs' such as a housing downturn, a Plan-B in case someone gets sick, etc. etc. Sounds to me like he failed to do that.

Well said! I echo this post!

If I were a builder, I would go out of my way to communicate progress with the neighboring homeowners and be clean as all get out. I think you'd have to be an absolute idiot not to perform these duties. You are only going to create ill-will and give your company a bad name if you don't do this very basic service to the community that you are temporarily invading.

Again...not to pile on...but beauty really is in the eye of the beholder. That house on Turner, not that the Flying Nun dormers have been added above the garage...just sad, in my architectural reviewer opinion.

quote:

Originally posted by KW:
Living next to unfinished projects wouldn't be pleasant, I agree. But if your flow of funding is unexpectedly shut down, how do you plan for that?

How do you create a contingency for a divorce? Things happen in our lives, that are beyond our control and cause problems that are unexpected. If we could all plan for the unexpected as efficiently as you suggest, and we all had the funds to do it, that would be fantastic. But you're living in a dreamworld. Any builder or businessman will plan for what they can, but you certainly can't compensate for everything.

In hindsight, it's really easy to say that you should have planned for this or that.

I feel bad for the neighbors of those projects, but it certainly isn't something that George chose to do. What gain does a builder have in stopping a project? And how do builders, or any other businessmen for that matter, plan for all of the what-if's. If you have the answer, I'd love to know.

And if you have it, definitely let all those *******s in the U.S. who have allowed or are facing foreclosure on their homes know. I mean, I feel bad that they are going to lose their homes and all, but that's no excuse for their neighbors (the real victims) who are going to be negatively affected by it, having to watch these empty homes next to them fall into disrepair with grass and weeds growing untamed.

By the way, what degree of economic downturn should builders plan for?

You know, by reading these pages, you'd think that George has 20 projects going on (he has only 4 I believe, which all should be completed by the fall),and has intentionally stopped them in order to piss of the neighbors (not the case). I'm only posting because I have a pretty good idea of his situation, he's a friend, and it kind of sucks to watch a few people bash someone when they have no idea what the underlying story is. If anyone is truly concerned by the situation and would like to know about the status of these projects and when they will be rectified, contact George and ask him.

Hi,

KW you offer so much emotion and virtually no logic. Here's a dose of reality: ONE PROJECT LEFT UNFINISHED IS TOO MANY! You claim he has 4. That goes beyond hard luck and falls in the category of negligence. Maybe even selfishness, but I won't go that far.

I won't try to convince you to see it through the eyes of anyone other than your "friend" C. George. Clearly, there is just too much emotion here for you.

But know this. You may just end up doing your buddy more harm than good. Prior to reading your posts, I would probably have driven by his projects and not connected them to any specific builder, or known that his divorce caused the neighbors to suffer. Now that you've laid it all out, I can honestly say it seems much worse.

You should also know that we DID live next door to foreclosure home. When the grass got too high, we simply wheeled our lawn mower over there once in a while and cut it. No big deal. The impact on us was minimal, a minor inconvenience. One can hardly say the same for people living next door to unfinished homes for 2-3 years.

quote:

Originally posted by MaybeNotSoCoveted:
One can hardly say the same for people living next door to unfinished homes for 2-3 years.

C. George's involvement with the home my acquantances have to see began in the fall of 2003. The house is not even completely painted yet, no front steps, nop gutters, back yard not graded, some kind of drainage pipes running above ground...

quote:

Originally posted by KW:
Living next to unfinished projects wouldn't be pleasant, I agree. But if your flow of funding is unexpectedly shut down, how do you plan for that?

How do you create a contingency for a divorce?

Sell one or more to another builder who can complete the project(s). Use the proceeds to fund one or two of the remaining projects. Finish a project and sell that. It could work....

This is just going to continue to go in a circle. I'm sorry that you guys can't quite get the fact that circumstances beyond his control caused the delays. It wasn't by choice. And it's a credit to C. George that he has been able to get things together so that he can finish his homes. It's obvious that there is no interest here in the facts of what happened.

And as I said before, if you're really concerned and want to get something changed, if you have a problem with any builder, then contact him rather than just whine anonymously on the local forum.

But looking back at this thread, this is pretty much just a bash job on C. George by a few individuals who are armed with minimal information and stunning hindsight perspective.