quote:

Originally posted by GE Fan:


Great quotes in history from Catholic popes will be posted shortly. I'm not sure which pope is my favorite - the Nazi or the pope that failed to act when children were getting raped by priests.

Fan,

While I agree with you regarding the whole Reverand Wright thing, I think you should think twice before you start posting the quotes or calling our current Pope a Nazi...

I was talking about the Pope in the 1940s. Hitler's Pope. I believe only Bill Mauer and the billions of Muslim's across the globe consider this pope to be a Nazi.

Fine, there will be no quotes - thank you for that - they were hard to find.

quote:

Originally posted by perplexed:

quote:

Originally posted by GE Fan:


Great quotes in history from Catholic popes will be posted shortly. I'm not sure which pope is my favorite - the Nazi or the pope that failed to act when children were getting raped by priests.

Fan,

While I agree with you regarding the whole Reverand Wright thing, I think you should think twice before you start posting the quotes or calling our current Pope a Nazi...

To be fair to Mr. Ratzinger, I think you had to join the Nazi party when you hit a certain age in Germany. Kind of like the Selective Service in the US of A. Pius XII, on the other hand, probably should have spoken up a little about the extermination of the Jewish race. But that's just my opinion.

quote:

Originally posted by GE Fan:

Fine, there will be no quotes - thank you for that - they were hard to find.

Thanks!

ge fan, you've read my mind. i've been taught (in high school) by a known child molester. i've been in a parish (not around here) where we've been preached to by a now-jailed priest (who had to be brought back 5-6 years ago from his retirement in HAWAII!!!) and who was/is completely unrepentant for what he did. there were even rumors that the former bishop right here in the joliet diosease did his share of aiding and abetting and transfering yet, i am still a catholic...and i'm not a proponent of child molestation. if i ever run for office i hope they don't use Fr.Pete (sophomore english) against me....
this whole thing has gotten ridiculously out of hand. i'm starting to wonder if (drum roll, hillary) this is a left wing conspiracy. maybe bill's paying the reverend to spout off....

Rev Wright makes Billy Carter look like a Harvard Grad!

Couldn't believe his antics at the NAACP meeting. Pretty crazy! For a Man of God not to preach words of reconciliation, peace and progress, I am amazed.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24371827/

I really have a problem believing that this is the first time Barak has heard these type of statements from the very Rev. Wright. I am sure it was very difficult for Barak to turn his back on someone who obviously has been a significant influence in his life. Now he has no choice and I am willing to bet that this will tank Obama's chances for the presidency. We shall see.

If that piece of s*** David Duke, the KKK member of the republican party was hanging around McCain, I would have the same sentiments to Mr. John. But the GOP purged the guy out of the ranks of the party due to his destructive views of life.

Personally, as Leon Panetta said, one of Clinton's guys I liked, stated that it was too early for Obama to run for the presidency. Robert Reich opined the same opinion but it is curious that he now supports Obama. Must have been pissed off at Hillary for something. I'm not interested in flowery speech's with little substance . "wheres the beef".

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Gus,

From an article in Mother Jones Magazine:

"After the Catholic League protested and called on McCain to renounce Hagee's support, the presumptive Republican presidential nominee praised Hagee's spiritual leadership and support of Israel and said that "when [Hagee] endorses me, it does not mean that I embrace everything that he stands for or believes in." After being further criticized for his Hagee connection, McCain backed off slightly, saying, "I repudiate any comments that are made, including Pastor Hagee's, if they are anti-Catholic or offensive to Catholics." But McCain did not renounce Hagee's endorsement."


This seems like the same thing to me. Does it matter who endorses who? Does it matter who renounces who? Doesn't it matter who can lead this country on the proper path? I'm sick of all of this crap that has little or nothing to do with the actual running of the country. Obama is to Rezko as McCain is to Keating. Wright = Parsley or Hagee. None of this has anything to do with what is really important. If it's not useless information about the candidates then it's front page news about Miley Cyrus's pictures.

Let's elect a president already.

Dear Little Way: Note that Obama has been a direct participant in Rev Wrights church the past 16 years, since 1992. I don't think that McCain was a participant in Hagee's church, was he?

Be that as it may, I agree and it's time to move on. "where's the beef"!!!!

quote:

Originally posted by Gus:
Dear Little Way: Note that Obama has been a direct participant in Rev Wrights church the past 16 years, since 1992. I don't think that McCain was a participant in Hagee's church, was he?

Actually, it was Rev. Wright that converted Obama to Christianity and baptized him into the Trinity United Church of Christ. Both Obama's father and stepfather were Muslim.

Rev. Wright was also backstage with Obama in private prayer moments before he announced his presidential bid.

To say that Rev. Wright was anything less than one of the most influential people in his life would be disingenuous. One would be hard pressed to name any other person other than his wife who'd be closer, more intimate and influential.

I’m not a man running for the highest elected office of this country seeking to equally represent all its people, nor is the Pope of the Catholic Church. Until today, Obama tolerated the remarks of his pastor for political gain, nothing else. Polls begin to dip, he loses a big primary, Governor of N.C. endorses Hillary, he loses momentum and the man of “principle” finally renounces his relationship to Wright. How shocking!

You imply that I am hypocrite for remaining loyal to the Catholic Church, while expecting Obama to denounce his relationship to Wright. That’s right, I do. You see, neither I nor my family have anything to gain by remaining loyal to the Catholic Church, ABSOLUTELY NOTHING, aside from the grace of God. Obama on the other hand, stands to gain the most powerful position in the world. He used his relationship at Trinity as a springboard to catapult his political career. Call me what you want, but that’s the difference, like it or not.

You call me a bigot for questioning Obama’s loyalty to our country? Please. There are many reasons to question his loyalty, a few of which have already been discussed in this thread.

Obama is no different than any other politician, sorry to disappoint you. He’s an opportunist. Trinity is probably one of the largest churches in Chicago as it contains more than 10,000 members. It’s a heck of a place to build a political base by bumping elbows with its parishioners and becoming friends with its pastor. Also, because he’s relatively new to politics, unlike his opponents, he hasn’t had time to wallow in mud as long as they have, but his snout is dirty and it’s just now coming to surface.

What’s a real shame is that people rallied behind Obama because they though he was going to bring about real change, but he’s not different than the rest. He’s a fraud. He’s no man of principle and I continue doubt his loyalty to this great country. Lighten up Francis!

Let me address some of your issues:

Relatively new to politics? Where did you get that idea? Obama's been involved in politics for decades.

And boy are you jaded. Obama is now a member of Trinity for personal political benefit? He only renounced Wright because he lost PA, not because of Wright's recent "speeches"? Next you are going tell me that he went to Harvard merely to advance his political interests...or that he taught at U of C because he knew that would springboard him into getting the college/law types vote! Those allegations that you seem to make are as preposterous as me opining that McCain joined the armed services, a group of over a million, to build a political base and bump elbows with the other veterans and becoming friends with a General. Come on, do you read what you write?

And to clarify, I never suggested that you should stop being loyal to the Catholic church. What I suggested is that you at least make an attempt to hold Barack Obama, or any candidate for political office, to the same or similar social standards you hold your neighbors and your family...make an attempt to put realistic expectations on the DEMOCRATIC candidates' lives...and at the very least, make an attempt to initially measure all political candidates with the same ruler. It certainly looks to me like you are going to vote for the Republican no matter what - so then you grasp at whatever you can to denigrate the Democrat while preaching the ills of the candidate all the while burying your head in the sand as to the shortcomings of the republican candidate and the fallacy and craziness of your words.

On another point, what benefit did Obama EVER get from his association to Rev. Wright? You mentioned that. You said that he tolerated him because he was benefitting from him. I'm curious as for the last several months, it has seemed to me to be only a losing proposition.

And please, amend your comment about "Obama being no different than any other politician" to "most any other person. Obama, by a stroke of political luck got thrust into the political lime-light...and he has turned it into an opportunity..so what? Hasn't McCain turned his POW time into an opportunity? He is self-admittedly "not good at the economy." Why else are people rallying around him...he's an American who has made us proud and served the part of the country that most of us in Glen Ellyn like aggrandizing as "our country." Truth be told, as a community organizer, Obama served our country as well - that service just isn't as sexy and isn't as glamorous.

Your comment that "he...[and his wife] are simply ashamed of what our flag stands for" was cheap and without even an indicia of factual support. Which I guess leads me to what may be the crux of where we may disagree (likely not as I actually make it a habit not to prejudge candidates and as such, don't punch all "R"s), what do you think the flag stands for? Or better yet, is military service more important and more reflective of what the flag stands for than community service?

DISCLAIMER
I have never voted for a Democratic Presidential candidate. I'm just sick and tired of the close-mindedness that has pervaded the Republican party and religion - and in my opinion, is exhibited in Bitterboy's posts, above.

APOLOGY
Bitterboy, sorry you were on the receiving end of my rant and had to suffer the blows. I know you can take it.

quote:

Originally posted by jombl:

quote:

Originally posted by Gus:
Dear Little Way: Note that Obama has been a direct participant in Rev Wrights church the past 16 years, since 1992. I don't think that McCain was a participant in Hagee's church, was he?

Actually, it was Rev. Wright that converted Obama to Christianity and baptized him into the Trinity United Church of Christ. Both Obama's father and stepfather were Muslim.

Rev. Wright was also backstage with Obama in private prayer moments before he announced his presidential bid.

To say that Rev. Wright was anything less than one of the most influential people in his life would be disingenuous. One would be hard pressed to name any other person other than his wife who'd be closer, more intimate and influential.

Jombl:

Obama never knew his Dad. Obama went to a Catholic school when growing up.

"To say that Rev. Wright was anything less than one of the most influential people in his life would be disingenuous"

According to who? According to what facts? Close confidant, maybe...but most influential people in his life...come on.

Snopes - Obama

Well Fan, it was interesting to note, among other things, that Wright was a 6 year veteran of the Corps durning Nam. Yet he maligns the current role of the military in Iraq. However, he was a part of the same type of "police" action that is happening in Iraq today.

In addition, Rev Wright was politically connected to LBJ and other admins, working within the democratic party at various posts and programs. Seems obvious to me that he was politically "connected". Quite possibly, maybe Obama found a means (politically and spiritualy)to rise up and receive recognition within the political landscape and hence, his rise in the political ladder within Illinois and later on, Nationally.

You have to give credit to the guy (Obama). He is intelligent, hard working (politically) and a great speaker. But beyond that, I really see no substance in his young career. If anyone thinks I'm racist they can go to hell. I would vote for Colin Powell in a heart beat. Would love to have Bill Cosby as his running mate.

As to JP2, don't forget he played a key role, with Lech Walesa, in bringing down the iron curtaim. Solidarity and a Polish Pope, with a lotta help from the west, notably the US and GB, in the end, took on the Kremlin and won though previous administrations dating back to HST should get credit as well. In the end, it was the economic engine of the west the won out over the corrupted and inefficient policies of the east.

As far as I'm concerned, it's high time to get some business people in the oval office and get rid of the lawyers that seem to prevail within both parties. Problem is, the business community doesn't want or need to put up with the BS that exists in the US politcal system.

Yesterday's actions by Wright was a true embarrassment to Obama as he well knows, hence, his renunciation of his actions. For everything good Wright has done, was erased by his tirade and antics of yesterday. The Press has latched on to this and won't let it go. Considering the press is "left" leaning for the most part, it seems to have bitten the Dems in the ***, with the exception of the Clinton campaign. Now let the conspiracy theories begin.

Good night for now.

quote:

Originally posted by jombl:

quote:

Originally posted by Gus:
Dear Little Way: Note that Obama has been a direct participant in Rev Wrights church the past 16 years, since 1992. I don't think that McCain was a participant in Hagee's church, was he?

Actually, it was Rev. Wright that converted Obama to Christianity and baptized him into the Trinity United Church of Christ. Both Obama's father and stepfather were Muslim.

Rev. Wright was also backstage with Obama in private prayer moments before he announced his presidential bid.

To say that Rev. Wright was anything less than one of the most influential people in his life would be disingenuous. One would be hard pressed to name any other person other than his wife who'd be closer, more intimate and influential.

How about his mother? How about his grandmother?

quote:

Originally posted by ronkas:

How about his mother? How about his grandmother?

As I said - one would be hard pressed. Obama himself finds it impossible to be more devoted to one over the other:

quote:

"And this helps explain, perhaps, my relationship with Reverend Wright. As imperfect as he may be, he has been like family to me. ... I can no more disown [Rev. Dr. Wright] than I can disown the black community. I can no more disown him than I can my white grandmother"


Barack Obama
18 March 2008

quote:

Originally posted by Gus:
If anyone thinks I'm racist they can go to hell. I would vote for Colin Powell in a heart beat. Would love to have Bill Cosby as his running mate.

Now that's funny. Nobody called you a racist though. I'm don't consider myself a racist of any kind. However, truth be told, Rev. Wright's comments caused a whole lot of white male voters to think twice about Obama and whether Obama is the right "first African-American President"...this white male included.

quote:

Originally posted by jombl:

quote:

Originally posted by ronkas:

How about his mother? How about his grandmother?

As I said - one would be hard pressed. Obama himself finds it impossible to be more devoted to one over the other:

quote:

"And this helps explain, perhaps, my relationship with Reverend Wright. As imperfect as he may be, he has been like family to me. ... I can no more disown [Rev. Dr. Wright] than I can disown the black community. I can no more disown him than I can my white grandmother"


Barack Obama
18 March 2008

That's a logical and factual leap and you know it. That statement does nothing to prove that "Wright is anything less than one of the most influential people in his life."

quote:

Originally posted by GE Fan:

quote:

"And this helps explain, perhaps, my relationship with Reverend Wright. As imperfect as he may be, he has been like family to me. ... I can no more disown [Rev. Dr. Wright] than I can disown the black community. I can no more disown him than I can my white grandmother"


Barack Obama
18 March 2008

That's a logical and factual leap and you know it. That statement does nothing to prove that "Wright is anything less than one of the most influential people in his life."

If Obama's own words describing his near twenty year relationship with the man who saved his immortal soul and brought Jesus into his life while becoming a close family friend and political adviser don't mean anything to you, then consider this: Obama was willing to, and did in fact, throw his grandmother under the train for political expediency while seeking to support his relationship with the Rev. Wright:

quote:

The Washington Monthly's liberal blogger Kevin Drum, who voted for Obama, commented about this scene and others:

"Obama routinely describes himself feeling the deepest, most painful emotions imaginable (one event is like a "fist in my stomach," for example, and he "still burned with the memory" a full year after a minor incident in college), but these feelings seem to be all out of proportion to the actual events of his life, which are generally pretty pedestrian."

So, in summary, let's look at how Obama smeared his own elderly but very much alive grandmother, calling her:

"a woman who once confessed her fear of black men who passed by her on the street, and who on more than one occasion has uttered racial or ethnic stereotypes that made me cringe."

Well, no, according to Obama's 1995 book, it is not at all true that she "once confessed her fear of black men who passed by her on the street." Instead, she once confessed her fear of one aggressive black beggar who didn't pass by her but instead confronted her, demanded money, and then gave her -- an intelligent, level-headed woman who had worked her way up to a mid-level corporate management position -- good reason to believe he would have violently mugged her if her bus hadn't pulled up.

... Obama is so superb with words that it's perfectly reasonable to hold him accountable for choosing to slander his own living grandmother for his political advantage.

He voted for Obama? Because he said it? It seems inconsistent that one would say they voted for the man, and then write this. Just saying. But as one who consistently uses my flawed upbringing in religious education classes, it's not throwing your family under the bus. Finally, if you think that's slandering, your observational skin is pretty thin.

quote:

Originally posted by ronkas:
... it's not throwing your family under the bus. Finally, if you think that's slandering, your observational skin is pretty thin.

It was not a unique observation on my part. Here are some snippets of the nearly 16,000 Google hit's on the same:

quote:

Barack Obama in yesterday’s speech: A More Perfect Union throws his grandmother, Madelyn Dunham, under the bus by discussing her racism

Don’t think that American voters noticed how far too easily Obama trashed his own family for political expediency. Will Hillary be able to make this case to the Democrat Super Delegates?
Or will the Democrat Party nominate an extremist who trash talks his own grandmother?

The phrase reminded me of ...(Barracks), at the time, seemingly little protest against lapel flags and the old hand-over-the-heart when the anthem is played. However, after learning that he listened to anti-American, anti-Israel, anti-white screeds every Sunday morning for twenty years, I have to wonder who he really is. His anti-war stance turned me off before his questionable messianic persona surfaced, but I still liked the boldness of his race speech at first read--even when he threw his white grandma under the bus.

I Think the POINT He was make was about RACE..and supporting Pastor Wrights Rhetoric.. His POINT was that even His WHITE Grandmother..tended to be a RACIST who expressed Racist Comments and Predjudice toward Black Men.. Yes..He did throw Her under the BUS…Just to Make a POINT..

evocative of Charles Colson’s oft-quoted remark that he would run over his own grandmother to get richard nixon re-elected…. which was then the subject of a brilliant Art Buchwald column.

And let's make this clear - no where in any of Obama's books or previous speaking, nor from any reports on her life do we ever find a single hint of racism of any kind whatsoever. It is only here in Obama's defense of Rev. Wright where in an attempt at moral equivalence he makes these monstrous attacks on the very woman who sacrificed so much to raise him and support his mother while she was writing her PhD thesis.

"Actually, throw grandmomma from the train. Then under a bus. Then back up over her."