Jombl:

You should contact someone in politics. You are masterful in manipulating facts and drumming up statistics to suit your position....absolutely masterful. You just cited 16,000 hits on google.....hilarious.

Jombl:

To call your argument vacuous would be an insult to vacuous people.
It's not funny. It's not intelligent. It's lazy thought, and unbecoming of some of your previous reasoning on numerous other subjects.

Has Jombl met his match in Ronkas and Fan? Say it ain't so. I am still afraid for you two, yet eagerly awaiting the next round of attacks. Kind of like sharks circling before the feast.

I need some more popcorn, this is getting better by the day.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Yossarian:
"Let me see if I've got this straight: in order to be grounded, I've got to be crazy and I must be crazy to keep flying. But if I ask to be grounded, that means I'm not crazy any more and I have to keep flying. " QUOTE]

Can you quote yourself?

quote:

Originally posted by ronkas:
But as one who consistently uses my flawed upbringing in religious education classes, it's not throwing your family under the bus. Finally, if you think that's slandering, your observational skin is pretty thin.

My point was simply that it was a widely held view discussed nationally that Obama had slandered his grandmother and made statements accusing her of racism that were contradicted by his own written record.

quote:

Originally posted by jombl:


My point was simply that it was a widely held view discussed nationally that Obama had slandered his grandmother and made statements accusing her of racism that were contradicted by his own written record.

Maybe she was a racist?

Widely held? You mean written by one guy, discussed on one radio program and then clicked on 15,998 times at google?

quote:

Originally posted by GE Fan:
Maybe she was a racist?

Widely held? You mean written by one guy, discussed on one radio program and then clicked on 15,998 times at google?

No she was not a racist, we have the lengthy written record of Obama himself from before he threw her under the bus for political gain and we have the words of her friends which have come out to support her and to specifically refute the accusations of Barack Obama.

quote:

Dennis Ching, who worked with her for more than forty years "I was real surprised that he indicated that, I never heard her say anything like that. I never heard her say anything negative about anything. And she never swore."

... in 1970s Honolulu, where white people were routinely the target of discrimination.

Sam Slom, a Bank of Hawaii economist then, who is now a Republican state senator in Hawaii, recalls that as a part of the white — or "haole" — minority in Hawaii, he would regularly see housing ads that made no effort to hide racial preferences. He says he remembers ads that read, "No haoles" or "No Japanese."

"That's the way it was," Slom said. "Did people talk about race? We had local jokes … like that 'pake' (Chinese) guy or the 'yobo' (Korean) who did this or that. I certainly got my share of haole jokes."

Hawaiian State Senator Sam Slom, who worked with her at the Bank of Hawaii, said "I never heard Madelyn say anything disparaging about people of African ancestry or Asian ancestry or anybody's ancestry."

Her friends defended her from Obama's charge that she was a bigoted racist - because that's exactly what he said. The accusation was untrue and was made to protect the Rev. Wright and to further Obama's own political career.

For the record...I am racist. Just like everyone else in the world.

quote:

Originally posted by ronkas:
Jombl:

To call your argument vacuous would be an insult to vacuous people.
It's not funny. It's not intelligent. It's lazy thought, and unbecoming of some of your previous reasoning on numerous other subjects.

It's o.k. Jombl, He called me a Nazi and now he's calling you dumb.

Just type s l o w e r, some day Ronkas will get it.

Here is the link to one of Jombl's apparent sources. It's written by that bastion of idiocy, Andy Martin. You might know him as Anthony Martin Trigona. Changed his name after his disbarment.

Obama's grandmother


Seems that Obama doesn't want anyone to bother his 84 year old grandmother. Given this kind of treatment, who would?

No, wrong guess. That leaves 15,999 Google hits on this topic to motor through.


I'll make it easy for you. My source is simply Obama and his grandmothers friends.

The quotes defending the Grandmother from Obama's scurrilous attacks on her character and integrity were reported by the USA Today newspaper.

Here's the link.

When you're ready please post your attacks on the messenger USA Today - I'm sure we're all curious to see how they have suddenly become part of the vast Right Wing Conspiracy to prevent the Dauphiné from ascending.

how many warnings do you need Ron?

quote:

Originally posted by jombl:
No, wrong guess. That leaves 15,999 Google hits on this topic to motor through.


I'll make it easy for you. My source is simply Obama and his grandmothers friends.

The quotes defending the Grandmother from Obama's scurrilous attacks on her character and integrity were reported by the USA Today newspaper.

Here's the link.

When you're ready please post your attacks on the messenger USA Today - I'm sure we're all curious to see how they have suddenly become part of the vast Right Wing Conspiracy to prevent the Dauphiné from ascending.

Sometimes a bad try is worse than no try. Sorry for that feeble effort. And it's not a right wing conspiracy. It's the girl from (take your pick) Arkansas, Park Ridge, New York, Scranton.

I am sure you can tell me how many journalism awards USA Today won. It reminds me of that scene from The Big Chill where Jeff Goldblum says the quality of the article is whether it can be finished in the time it takes the average American to defecate.

quote:

Originally posted by jombl:
I'm sure we're all curious to see how they have suddenly become part of the vast Right Wing Conspiracy to prevent the Dauphiné from ascending.

For the great unwashed, here is the definition of Jombl's slur:

Dauphiné is a region of southeast France.

Dauphine is the female form of the particular French feudal (comital or princely) title of Dauphin (also anglicized as Dolphin), applied to the wife of a Dauphin (usually in the sense of heir to the French royal throne). It is roughly analogous to the British title Princess of Wales.

I am smarter than when the day started from reading today's posts.

No need to apologize, I’m a big boy. Trust me, I don’t think any less of you.

Do I think that 20 years ago Obama thought to himself that joining Trinity was somehow politically beneficial? No. But as time passed and as he became politically motivated, yes, I do.

In 2007 for a story in the Tribune, Obama stated:

quote:

What I value most about Pastor Wright is not his day-to-day political advice. He’s much more of a sounding board for me to make sure that I am speaking truthfully about what I believe is possible and that I’m not losing myself in some of the hype and hoopla and stress that’s involved in national politics.

Although Obama states political advice is not what he most values, this statement yields no doubt that Wright had political influence in his life.

Here’s an example of Wright’s attempt to influence his flock in Obama's favor from the pulpit:

quote:

Some of us, his own disciples, could not see how the Lord could use a Rosa Parks, a Martin Luther King to bring an end to the sick and silly system of segregation. White Christian preachers, the Lord's disciples, told Martin Luther King he was moving too fast. Slow down. Give it some time God shows us the answer but we let our 'buts' get in the way.

There is a man here who can take this country in a new direction. 'But he's a black man.' There is a man here who is empowered by hope to usher in an era of change in a country that is in desperate need of a change. 'But he ain't black enough.' There is a man here who can get Christians, Muslims, Jews, Hindus, Buddhists and persons of no faith to sit down at the table of brotherhood and sisterhood and talk about our common humanity and our common future. 'But I ain't gonna vote for him 'cause I don't want to waste my vote.

But Hillary is married to Bill, and Bill has been good to us.' No he ain't. Bill did us just like he did Monica Lewinsky. He was riding dirty. But he fixed it so that some of y'all are now riding pretty. Money talks and BS walks. BS, that's bogus stuff. Walk all over this country; walk all over the Internet—bogus stuff. Walk all over your self-confidence.

I would work for Barack, but he doesn't have the experience that Hillary has. But he's an unknown in terms of foreign policy.' 'But his health-care plan ain't as good as Edwards' plan. But the church he has belonged to for 20 years causes some white people and some Uncle Toms some problems.' God shows us the answer and we let our 'buts' get in the way. Put it another way, God shows us the answer and, like Andrew, we show God our 'buts.

But this ain't gonna work.' 'But we never did it that way before.' 'But this can never happen.' 'But Pastor Wright don't do it like that, Pastor Moss.' God shows us the answer and we let our 'buts' get in the way. God shows us the answer and we show God our 'buts' as we head for the exit. God shows us the answer and like Andrew we tell God what he shows us ain't gonna work.

Wright even endorsed Obama, which by the way has now been scrubbed.

quote:

I’m concerned with healthcare; the war in Iraq; the high rates of recidivism in our criminal justice system; the poor condition of the Illinois public school system. Many of the resources that go to support programs such as for those living with HIV/AIDS are now being spent to fund the war. We have to communicate… I support Barack because of his incarnated faith – his faith made alive in the flesh. He reaches across all faith communities and even to those who have no faith at all. He is building a community where everyone has worth. That kind of faith is not easy to find in 2007 and a man like Barack is a rarity.

Wright warned his flock not to believe any reports of a rift between him and Obama after Obama’s last-minute decision not to have Wright speak at his presidential announcement last month:

quote:

Barack and I are fine," Wright, 65, on an out-of-state trip, said in a recorded message played to about 2,000 attendees. "The press is not to be trusted. ... Don't let somebody outside our camp divide us.

Either he means his own relationship with his congregation, his relationship with Obama or used in context with the aforementioned sermon he means their political unity.

Trinity maintains the largest congregation in the United Church of Christ. To think that being a member of a 10,000 person church (not including friends and family members which compounds significantly via networking) did not somehow influence or in part act as a springboard to launch a political career in Illinois is disingenuous. Maybe this is the reason he was so slow in denouncing his ties, he probably felt obligated in some sense not to.

To have watched Obama’s “A more Perfect Union” race speech and Moyer’s interview of Wright on PBS in an attempt to justify Wright's message is ridiculous and a huge mistake. Having to be African American to understand it all and justify why this hate makes its rounds to Church on Sunday is also ridiculous. It's all about the Benjamins.

Obama attended this church and continued to attend even after Louis Farrakhan was awarded the church’s highest honor. He should have broke ties a long time ago, rather he waits until he’s well into his attempt to secure the Presidency to break all ties with Louis Farrakhan and Trinity? C’mon. This is a man of principle? This only calls his motivations into question. He’s an opportunist.

Obama is charismatic and is a great speaker. It's no doubt he is highly intelligent and so is Wright for that matter, but his judgment is poor, most notably by the company he keeps and it will cost him an election.

As far as being a relatively new politician, sure Obama was elected to our State Senator in 1996, but it was not until 2004 he became a U.S. Senator. Probably a poor choice of words on my part. McCain had been elected to the U.S. House in 1982 and then to the U.S. Senate in 1986. Ran for president in 2000. Clinton, well she was a former First Lady of Arkansas dating back to 1979, became First Lady of the U.S. back in 1993 and U.S. Senator in 2000. I guess what I was trying to say is that Obama’s opponents have had more national exposure and subsequently more bad press, a lot of their dirty laundry (not all) has already been aired.

Hey Bitter. As a Catholic, I ask you: Did you break with the Church when Imesch obstructed justice in his depositions about the Joliet Diocese's transfers and hiding of sexual abusers? How he minimized the sins of his priests?

No. The Church means more to you than that. I chose my parish, though not in this diocese based on the pastor who woke up my spirit in a difficult time. Some would say there is a strong political base being in Mayor Daley's parish. Would it help? Maybe. I find it to be more than its membership and its leaders.

Now, when I run for President, and you are rattling the myriad skeletons in my closet, you will find that I did not walk out of the church when our pastor said a good word about a fellow seminarian who subsequently pleaded guilty to abusing minors. Did I like what he said? No. It made me very uncomfortable. In the context of what he was preaching, it was a message that needed to be heard and prayed over.

It's the Church. Not the Pastor.

Does your Pastor have an influence on you? Of course. Did Wright have an influence on Obama? Could not help but have an influence. But at the end of the day, it is not mind control. It's a Church.

I just feel that this has become distasteful sport for a lot of people, and Obama just took away the ball.

Ronkas:

Your hypothetical will not get an answer if history is any indication. Bitterboy said, above, that he holds the Democratic Presidential candidates to a higher standard than himself and his neighbors and community.

quote:

Originally posted by Yossarian:
If Obama is going to win/lose the primary election, let it be on his stance on the issues, not some loud mouth, race baiting hack.

I think we all wait for his stance on the issues and solutions...so far I only know he stands for 'Change'.