GlenEllynite
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quote: Originally posted by GE Fan:
What a load of bull **** IMO. You cannot really be supporting the Church? You cannot really be trying to validate the actions of the "leaders" of the church.
But, even if you are, although I cannot agree with the logic and facts that you write, I will agree to disagree. I will end it here.
That is all.
Dear Fan: are you sure you aren't Episcopalian?? My father always said it was a Catholic who was slapped. My Dad grew up Greek Orthodox BTW and has no real love for the Catholics or religion as a whole. Tired of the BS from the old country I guess. Regardless, when his brother, who was young at the time (around 14 years old), goofed around crossing himself in church, the priest came off the dais and cold cocked him in front of the whole congregation. Needless to say all his brothers and 2 sisters laughed inside. His hold man gave him another shot to the jaw when they came home to drive home the message. Ahhhh, the old days! |
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GlenEllynite
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quote: Originally posted by Gus:
Dear Fan: are you sure you aren't Episcopalian?? My father always said it was a Catholic who was slapped.
My Dad grew up Greek Orthodox BTW and has no real love for the Catholics or religion as a whole. Tired of the BS from the old country I guess. Regardless, when his brother, who was young at the time (around 14 years old), goofed around crossing himself in church, the priest came off the dais and cold cocked him in front of the whole congregation. Needless to say all his brothers and 2 sisters laughed inside. His hold man gave him another shot to the jaw when they came home to drive home the message.
Ahhhh, the old days!
I don't get it...which isn't surprising as I went to the Cubs game today. My Dad was Episcopalian. My Mom is Catholic...which as you know, is very common in Lebanon.
"Often Wrong, Never in Doubt"
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| Posts: 5779 | Location: Glen Ellyn, Illinois | Registered: June 09, 2004 |  |
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GlenEllynite
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quote: Originally posted by ronkas:
Glad you brought that up. In 1957, the United Church of Christ formed through the union of the Evangelical and Reformed Church with the General Council of Congregational Christian Churches.
The Congregational Church dates back to the Pilgrims.
First Con in GE is a UCC church. As I've mentioned before, I attend First Con. It's a wonderful church. The great thing about the Congregationalists is that they let the Congregation (the people) determine the direction of the church. A selection committee interviews candidates for pastor and the narrowed list each take their turn serving at Sunday services and giving a sermon. We then are able to vote on which pastor we want OR if they feel there is only one solid candidate, we can vote to accept that person or tell the committee to go back to the drawing board. We vote on our budget as well. We send representatives to the national, annual meeting (synod) to vote on a variety of issues - taking a stand on current topics and setting direction for the entire denomination. The UCC Church has an amazing and rich tradition. It is also one of the most progressive Christian churches around. If my computer wasn't being difficult, I'd find the page on the UCC website with a nice summary of all the human rights, social justice issues the UCC church has taken the lead on.....Freeing the slaves on the Amistad, helping locate Hitler, many more important, historical events. Obama's membership in the UCC is consistent with the many statements he has made in regard to his family, his faith, and his desire to help others.
"The most valuable things in life are not measured in monetary terms. The really important things are not houses and lands, stocks and bonds, automobiles and real state, but friendships, trust, confidence, empathy, mercy, love and faith. " -Bertrand Russell V. Delong
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| Posts: 3216 | Location: Glen Ellyn, IL | Registered: April 04, 2003 | |
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GlenEllynite
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Amy- Sounds like a great church. Do you know their stand on abortion? Thanks.
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GlenEllynite
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Well, that's the interesting thing about the church. They don't have "rules" about stuff like that. So, I guess the best way to answer it is that each person has to make their own judgement based on their relationship with God....I know people at my church that are pro-life and I know people that are pro-choice and both seem to feel they have a place in the church. I will say, that is NOT a topic that is discussed much. Because the church is so progressive, I'd bet that there are more pro-choice people than pro-life (By progressive I mean a church that supports our free will, which tends to attract more liberal-minded folks). The Synod voted a couple of years ago to support marriage equity (allowing same sex marriage). So, again, I'd say it's a more liberal church. But more importantly, it's a very welcoming church and our membership continues to rise.
"The most valuable things in life are not measured in monetary terms. The really important things are not houses and lands, stocks and bonds, automobiles and real state, but friendships, trust, confidence, empathy, mercy, love and faith. " -Bertrand Russell V. Delong
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| Posts: 3216 | Location: Glen Ellyn, IL | Registered: April 04, 2003 | |
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GlenEllynite
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Just heard on NBC morning show that Oprah was a member of Rev Wrights church in the 80's but she left some years ago, apparently, due to her concern of her image with the public and her fans due to Wright's rhetoric.
If true, Obama should have followed her lead. The question is, why didn't he???
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GlenEllynite
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quote: Originally posted by Gus:
Just heard on NBC morning show that Oprah was a member of Rev Wrights church in the 80's but she left some years ago, apparently, due to her concern of her image with the public and her fans due to Wright's rhetoric.
If true, Obama should have followed her lead. The question is, why didn't he???
God forbid that someone does something for motives other than their image.
"Often Wrong, Never in Doubt"
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| Posts: 5779 | Location: Glen Ellyn, Illinois | Registered: June 09, 2004 | |
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GlenEllynite
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It may be that Oprah believe's she IS a god. Zombie Hinsdale housewives nod in agreement, bow to their god. 
"Deck the halls..."
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GlenEllynite
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quote: Originally posted by Gus:
Just heard on NBC morning show that Oprah was a member of Rev Wrights church in the 80's but she left some years ago, apparently, due to her concern of her image with the public and her fans due to Wright's rhetoric.
If true, Obama should have followed her lead. The question is, why didn't he???
Can't follow someone's lead when you are not even out of law school yet. What was her image in the 80's? Didn't she become OPRAH in the 90's?
Ronald M. Kas
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GlenEllynite
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Ron-It is not wise to question Oprah. She has "security people" you know what I mean? I've said too much already.
"Deck the halls..."
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GlenEllynite
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gus, that's easy...oprah left the church because it was too far away from N. Michigan Ave. barack, a south sider married to a south sider, lived closer...
that's all.
interesting idea in the paper this morning...rev. wright actually doesn't want obama elected. a) he's mad he wasn't invited to the campaign kick off in springfield last year... b)if barack is actually elected, as the first black president he takes alot of wind out of wright's sails (Anger against whites.) thus, the baiting and the REALLY heated rhetoric of the past few weeks coming from him. plus, he likes the limelight(my opinion...) and oh, i forgot the last reason...bill is paying him!!!
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GlenEllynite
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quote: b)if barack is actually elected, as the first black president he takes alot of wind out of wright's sails (Anger against whites.) thus, the baiting and the REALLY heated rhetoric of the past few weeks coming from him.
BINGO! There is money to be made in fabricated racism, just ask Al & Jesse.
"Deck the halls..."
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GlenEllynite
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quote: gus, that's easy...oprah left the church because it was too far away from N. Michigan Ave. barack, a south sider married to a south sider, lived closer...
that's all.
Are you kidding me Howdy? quote: Something Wasn’t Wright
Why Oprah Winfrey left Rev. Jeremiah Wright's church.
By Allison Samuels | NEWSWEEK
May 12, 2008 Issue
For any spiritually minded, up-wardly mobile African-American living in Chicago in the mid-1980s, the Trinity United Church of Christ was—and still is—the place to be. That's what drew Oprah Winfrey, a recent Chicago transplant, to the church in 1984. She was eager to bond with the movers and shakers in her new hometown's black community. But she also admired Trinity United's ambitious outreach work with the poor, and she took pride in upholding her Southern grandmother's legacy of involvement with traditional African-American houses of worship. Winfrey was a member of Trinity United from 1984 to 1986, and she continued to attend off and on into the early to the mid-1990s. But then she stopped. A major reason—but by no means the only reason—was the Rev. Jeremiah Wright.
According to two sources, Winfrey was never comfortable with the tone of Wright's more incendiary sermons, which she knew had the power to damage her standing as America's favorite daytime talk-show host. "Oprah is a businesswoman, first and foremost," said one longtime friend, who requested anonymity when discussing Winfrey's personal sentiments. "She's always been aware that her audience is very mainstream, and doing anything to offend them just wouldn't be smart. She's been around black churches all her life, so Reverend Wright's anger-filled message didn't surprise her. But it just wasn't what she was looking for in a church." Oprah's decision to distance herself came as a surprise to Wright, who told Christianity Today in 2002 that when he would "run into her socially … she would say, 'Here's my pastor!' " (Winfrey declined to comment. A Harpo Productions spokesperson would not confirm her reasons for leaving the church.)
But Winfrey also had spiritual reasons for the parting. In conversations at the time with a former business associate, who also asked for anonymity, Winfrey cited her fatigue with organized religion and a desire to be involved with a more inclusive ministry. In time, she found one: her own. "There is the Church of Oprah now," said her longtime friend, with a laugh. "She has her own following."
Friends of Sen. Barack Obama, whose relationship with Wright has rocked his bid for the White House, insist that it would be unfair to compare Winfrey's decision to leave Trinity United with his own decision to stay. "[His] reasons for attending Trinity were totally different,'' said one campaign adviser, who declined to be named discussing the Illinois senator's sentiments. "Early on, he was in search of his identity as an African-American and, more importantly, as an African-American man. Reverend Wright and other male members of the church were instrumental in helping him understand the black experience in America. Winfrey wasn't going for that. She's secure in her blackness, so that didn't have a hold on her.'' And while Winfrey, who has endorsed Obama and campaigned on his behalf, had long understood the perils of a close association with Wright, friends say she was blindsided by the pastor's personal assault on Obama. "She felt that Wright would never do anything to hurt a man who looked up to him as a father figure," said her close friend. "She also never thought he'd intentionally hurt someone trying to make history and change the lives of so many people.''
© 2008
"You shouldn't soil your Sunday pants, like those other foolish ants."
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GlenEllynite
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not that there isn't alot of REAL racism...but an elected barack sure does hurt those in the african american community who want to peddle hate. plus, barack doesnt really have an "authentic" black experience. he is a first generation american, half white...not exactly who jesse jackson, for instance, may have picked.
interesting note in today's tribune...they listed their top in the state students (2k scholarship..) at least FOUR of the ten students were either born abroad (2 from china) and 2 were first generation (iran and i can't remember now) and at least 3 of these near-foreign students were going to harvard. that just wouldnt have happened 40-50 years ago. just like obama...
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GlenEllynite
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I am losing my patience for the "BUPPIE" argument for Trinity United. Oprah took over AM Chicago in 1984. Just about the time Phil Donahue tanked his show with pretentiousness. She did the Jerry Springer kind of show which has always attracted voyeurs. Years later, when she became her own production company, like any good marketer, she looked for the next product curve. "New age" attitudes were becoming popular. She made a choice to change her program focus and that's when she tapped the money box. Trinity United has so little to do with Oprah, a truly egocentric human phenomena, that discussing Trinity has become a racist argument. Get off it. All of the lapsed Catholics that left for Willow Creek, First Congregational, and other churches have their reasons. They are not economic or political; they are not about the pastor; they are about something deeper. This kind of thinking is lost on those who continually look for the shooter on the grassy knoll.
Ronald M. Kas
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GlenEllynite
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quote: Originally posted by ronkas:
...discussing Trinity has become a racist argument. Get off it.
Did you just play the race card? Is it now no longer acceptable to question the character and integrity of a candidate for the highest office in the land because of the friends he keeps, the people whose advice he takes and the causes to which he himself donates? Does this new rule of yours apply to any other candidate? |
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| Posts: 2462 | Location: Glen Ellyn, Il | Registered: September 23, 2003 | |
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GlenEllynite
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Hey Howdy, I'm not rendering an opinion, just reporting what the media is saying. You can figure it out yourself.
Further to this thread, check out today's Trib article in the Metro section titled "Oprah Winfrey split over Wright". A couple of excerpts:
The split was due to the "tone" of Wrights sermons.
"She's (Oprah) always been aware that her audience is very mainstream and doing anything to offend them just wouldn't be smart". "She's been around black churches all her life so Rev Wrights anger filled message didn't suprise her. But it just wasn't what she was looking for in a church".
"Rev Wright and other male members of the church we instrumental in helping him understand the black experience in America". In addition, Obama's "attachment to Wright flowed in part from the role the pastor and church provided in the fatherless Obama's search for identity as a black man".
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GlenEllynite
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hillary sleeps with bill (who i think has alot to answer for)...and cindy mccain has sure had her troubles...
there's a new uncomplimenatary book out about hillary that makes reference to the "power pact" between her and bill...tag teaming the presidency. me first, then you.
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GlenEllynite
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quote: Originally posted by jombl: quote: Originally posted by ronkas:
...discussing Trinity has become a racist argument. Get off it.
Did you just play the race card?
Yes. Perhaps if you are being a fair and balanced interrogator, you might respond to my post in another thread. Then you can question McNasty's integrity. Posted May 04, 2008 06:38 PM http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/columnists/chi-oped0...y04,0,6061828.columnObama distances himself from Wright and has to answer about being on a Board with Ayers. Meanwhile, Hillary smirks all over Billy O's interview about Wright, and McCain embraces Liddy and Hagee. Amazing. And no one asks about one of the most despicable character of the 70's - G. Gordon Liddy.
Ronald M. Kas
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GlenEllynite
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quote: Originally posted by Gus:
Hey Howdy, I'm not rendering an opinion, just reporting what the media is saying. You can figure it out yourself.
"She's (Oprah) always been aware that her audience is very mainstream and doing anything to offend them just wouldn't be smart". "She's been around black churches all her life so Rev Wrights anger filled message didn't suprise her.
"Rev Wright and other male members of the church we instrumental in helping him understand the black experience in America". In addition, Obama's "attachment to Wright flowed in part from the role the pastor and church provided in the fatherless Obama's search for identity as a black man".
So, Oprah is very mainstream (meaning she has a white audience who can't be offended) and been around black churches all her life (meaning she's blacker than Obama), and Obama was drawn to this church because he was fatherless? The gymnastic logic of this discussion baffles me. I thought he was drawn to the church because he was an opportunist. He was only trying to understand the black experience in America? Please. One or the other. Perhaps his marriage to a black woman was just another exercise in opportunism. Marrying a white woman would have been uppity?
Ronald M. Kas
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