Nazi's? what the heck are you talking about? I'm not talking about genocide. Unfortunately that happens all too regularly around the world. Sorry, not a legitimate "ideology" to me. Not even sure if it is an ideology. Like there's a legitimate intellectual discussion/publication on a "dictatorship"?

Communism, Socialism, Capitalism, etc. Human beings trying to find fair ways of governing.

Plus we don't seem to want to admit that we don't live in a world where "might is right". Great weapons we do have but they couldn't find Bin in Afgan and in retaliation the Taliban reversed their ban on poppies and flooded us with cheap heroin. Believe me as a parent of teenagers who talk- $5 a bag near Midway- $20 in the suburbs meaning it's literally free to GE kids who want use. Glenbard schools are awash in it (as are others) and its not talked about much.

IMO unless we figure out it's not about the best bombs or planes, we're screwed.

And I still haven't heard a satisfactory explanation of the huge market drop a few weeks ago. Some of the trades were supposedly frozen until we could figure out what happened.

First one who uses Nazis in an argument loses. Now, CAN WE GET BACK TO MARK KIRK, SUPERHERO?

...and this is why I go crazy trying to have reasoned discussions with right-wingers. When they don’t have an answer they can defend, they argue something new they made up out of whole cloth and eventually play the Nazi card.

Gus, for pete’s sake. We were talking Democracy (as the U.S.A. political system) and Capitalism (as our economic system). The two are intertwined, but not interchangeable. (East Germany, Russia and Cuba, for example, all had or have very active black-market, unregulated, free-enterprise and capitalistic underground economic systems.)

No one in this thread, no one, said the E.U., or G.B., or Spain, Greece, China, Japan, Cuba, Russia or the old USSR had a better political or economic system. Only you brought up the subject of other countries and other political and economic systems. Which has little, if anything, to do with improving ours for the benefit of... us.

Thinking BP sucks doesn’t make East Germany look good.

My point was quite simple and straightforward (or so I thought):

• Democracy — as practiced in the Good ‘Ol U.S. of A. is a fine system — in theory.
• Capitalism — as practiced in the Good Ol' U.s. of A. is also a fine system — in theory.

Nobody I know wants to trash these two systems in order to start bartering chickens for medical services, or whatever socialist claptrap the right-wing tea baggers are currently proposing.

However — (now, pay attention) — neither of our two basic societal systems is perfect in practice, largely because both are practiced by humans, and humans are less than perfect..

So all I’m saying is that laws and regulations are necessary to keep our Democracy and our Private Enterprise systems productive and on the straight-and-narrow. This isn’t a new idea; the Rule of Law pretty much traces its roots back to the Magna Carta.

I’m not saying we need more laws and regulations. For now, it would be nice if we simply enforced the ones that are already on the books. (The spirit and intent that is, not just the loopholes of “the letter.”)

For instance — I don’t like the fact that it’s so easy (and largely legal) for Big Money to buy elections, politicians, and friendly legislation. It’s frustrating that corporate America has more of a voice in lawmaking than us taxpaying citizens. (Yes, you can include labor unions and the AARP in this category. Lobbyists are lobbyists; bribery is bribery.)

Consequently, it also bothers me that conservatives feel that businesspeople can do no wrong and that all businesses should be allowed by government to do whatever they damn well please.

On the economic side, I don’t like the fact that wealthy corporations can “buy” both laws and those who regulate them (closely related to the paragraph above), and how any business can be allowed to become “to big to fail.” Multinationals that are above the laws of any and all countries really worries me.

I've said before that a hope for profit is a great motivator. Investing one’s time, talent and money in creativity, research and new ideas is a wonderful way to kick-start wealth and prosperity. But investing in mergers and acquisitions of mature companies is generally a counterproductive waste of resources that adds little to anyone’s way of life (other than the lawyers and the golden parachute-equipped top management that did the deal).

So again: Our governmental and economic systems are fine, in principle. But they are not working as well as they should be and could be in practice, because too many people have figured out how to “beat the system” for their own personal gain at the expense of others. Not everybody is unethical... but enough are to cause things like a worldwide economic recession, a devastating underwater oil spill, millions of civilian deaths in wars that may well be un-winable and/or unnecessary, and to cause much additional worldwide human suffering.

But I accept the fact that while some of us feel a certain responsibility for our fellow humans, others feel such thoughts are simply a socialist plot, for our fellow humans have been placed there solely for us to exploit. On this “value of the lives of others” concept I realize we will never get together.

In any case, our broken systems can only be fixed with changes from within.

But “conserving” the status quo with “the politics of Hell NO!” will improve nothing. Usurping the Constitution, refusing to pay taxes, seeing deregulation as some sort of solution rather than as adding to the problem, and rewarding white collar thieves while punishing their victims is a recipe for disaster.

Gus, if you’re pro- BP, AGI, unregulated health-insurance monopolies with “death panel” powers, misrepresented investment “opportunities” and the like, just say so. We know a lot of people are.

And if you’re against Social Security, Medicare, the Interstate Highway System, air traffic safety, paying our debts and the like... again, just say so. We can take it, but we’ll continue to work on improving things anyway... without your (unoffered) help.

But keep it in the U.S. There’s no reason to travel overseas to point at even worse political and economic systems; that’s a red herring that won’t help improve our systems. (Frankly, I thought we were discussing ethics in U.S. politics and U.S. business, so I honestly don’t have a clue as to what battle you’ve now wandered off to fight.)