I'm sure she's not. It's not the young, energetic ones who still have the passion that think about it. It's those who've endured years of beauracracy, those who've witnessed the lack of "magic" once believed to have been there....those are the ones who need the pension. It's a motivator when all the rest have died out.

quote:

Originally posted by GESingleMom2:
...you also have to consider (again) the extra funds that these teachers use toward their students' educations. So what looks like a $40,000 annual salary actually ends up being more like $30,000 after classroom aids and supplies.

All I'm trying to say is that some things that seem like black and white facts, aren't exactly what they seem.

I have a great appreciation for teachers, and believe that they are the single greatest reason for success in the classroom. I have had teachers in my family and married into a family full of them. It was a few exceptional teachers that lead me to enroll in college as an education major. It is the excitement in a young teacher’s voice and the sparkle in their eyes that we should foster and promote – that is not to say that a seasoned teacher cannot share the same traits (when they do, treat them like gold).

But, I have never heard of a teacher spending 25% of their salary on classroom supplies – that, is a “fact” that isn’t quite what it seems. I would like to know from what reference that comes.

Some teachers get paid well and some don’t. The problem with that is the system itself. A tenure based system that rewards time service and education levels, ignoring performance variables will always move the mean. Superior performing great teachers will not be appropriately rewarded, well under performers that do enough to not violate their union contract will be carried along the compensation stream like a dead leaf.

It is just the backend burden on taxpayers and the system that is strained to the point of breaking.

Pay all the teachers 7% more stating next year, and cancel all the future pensions. Give them a 401K structure and a compensation benefit plan commensurate with the rest of the community. Paying them in today’s dollars forces the funds to come from today’s dollars and stops the future threat of collapse. That is just one suggestion, I am sure there are many more.

A worker staring at GM today would be looking at the same situation. A worker at IBM would be as well, and they would most likely be trained by a pensioned veteran. Regrettably, times change, and not always for the better.

Wah!

Don't know where to start- IMRF was over 100% funded before 2008-BUT- the State tried several times in past years to modify the laws to take the employee/employer contributions in exchange for an IOU. What a taxpayer disaster that would have been. Someone's griping that IMRF lost less than than the average in 2008? We all lost. Plus, last I read they are well into double digit returns this year. A well funded, well run pension.

returns

Yes, whoever asked, the State retirement program certainly could have been fully funded or close to it on employer and state contributions. That is the whole idea- it's not supposed to be a black hole whereby taxpayers and employees keep throwing $ into it and the state then borrows from it negating investment returns. Do you understand BTN? Yes it is all tax money but as taxpayers we already payed our fair share into the retirement fund. Now we're being asked to put more tax money in and for the employees to not get what was promised them because of the State's poorly handling of it's finances.

And 401K's which most of us have in the private world- IMO biggest ripoff ever put onto the citizens and employers of this county. You will never get a decent return long-term due to it all being gobbled up by fees. Who pays someone to lose your $ in an off year. We do apparently.

And what I meant by teachers going to another "company" was not that they would switch careers- but that many of our best will go to financially solvent States who are willing to pay them what they feel they are worth. You can say you think a fair pensions should be whatever you want, but the market will dictate.

And a few public employees getting 6 figure retirement- chump change in comparison to CEO salaries, the Madoffs of the world, etc. Not "tax money" but still US citizens $.

But govt should be fine now because they're going to reap a fortune on cars sliding through the red light cameras in the past storm.

FRY's, I know what you're saying about fostering the sparkle in the young teachers. The problem with that is (as with many things viewed as "magical" in life), it doesn't last. No matter what you do, it fades....gets eaten by the negative side of reality.

And my suggestion of 25% may have been (in many cases) an exaggeration, I oftentimes use hyperbole to prove a point. People think that teaching is like any other career choice in life, but it's not. It's an industry all its own with its own rules and guidelines, including its own salary/pension base. It cannot be compared fairly to other industries.

quote:

Some teachers get paid well and some don’t. The problem with that is the system itself. A tenure based system that rewards time service and education levels, ignoring performance variables will always move the mean. Superior performing great teachers will not be appropriately rewarded, well under performers that do enough to not violate their union contract will be carried along the compensation stream like a dead leaf

I agree with you whole-heartedly on this. However, it seems that the focus of some people on the issue is on those in the latter group when the majority is the former.

quote:

It is just the backend burden on taxpayers and the system that is strained to the point of breaking.

This I disagree with. It's far more complicated than this. Moreso than the backend you mentioned, is the distress of the mismanagement of funds. If revenues are mismanaged, it doesn't matter what percentage of them is coming in....eventually it won't cover all of the expenses necessary.

Bio: I agree with you whole-heartedly about 401k programs. We should all be handling our own portfolios with either management firms that we choose ourselves, or on our own. Investing into anything is a tricky game of gambling and I, for one, am NOT comfortable with some other company determining where my money is invested. If I'm going to get no return on it, it's going to be no one's fault but my own.

Thanks for clarifying, I misunderstood what you meant about the teachers goign to another company. You were referring to relocating to another state, not a career switch to another industry.

Good point about the Madoff thing as well. THAT'S where the true golden parachutes are....

The tenure system may be antiquated and IMO should go but it's not quite what's being said here. Crappy tenure teachers are often sent to 100% homeroom and/or low end sports coaching duties until they resign. All organizations figure out how to play the rules- public or private.