NY State about to go broke

Patterson say NY will be broke before Christmas.

California just made all workers withhold an extra 10% from their paychecks to help give the state enough cash flow (an extra $1.7 billion) to get them through the tough time. CA plans on giving the interest free loan back to the taxpayers with their tax refund. What happens when they have no money left to refund?IL is going broke article

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The State‘s pension programs must be reformed to reduce costs and mirror more closely the standards and yardsticks that have been adopted in the private sector. The State cannot afford the current programs any longer. Moreover, it is unfair to require taxpayers to bear the costs of the current pension programs for the State‘s employees.

Whoever looks most likely to make this happen in Ill-Annoy will get my vote for governor.

Well then we're going to have to give them (at least the professionals) matching 401k's and performance bonuses, profit sharing, plus competitive pay (and apparently a full time work week). Or the best will work for the private sector and we will continue to get what we pay for. 25-30 years hoping for a fixed pension plus none of the above in an environment that clearly wants to eliminate that benefit doesn't get us quality government employees. So we get what we pay for.

Few people in the private sector get the generous pension and health care benefits that people in the public sector have.

Its not sustainable to pay someone more when they retire than what they made working.

Why should taxpayers be asked to fund benefits that they themselves no longer get.

Illinois is 9B in the hole. We have 90B in unfunded pension mandates in Illinois.

Private companies have been cutting benefits for years . Yet there hasn't been a mass exodus from those companies. Why do you think that will happen to government employees.

Ok then. Keep cutting that "waste" in government. That mantra has been going on for a good 30+ years by those who want to be elected. Funny how the waste never seems to go away even though now we've reached the point where services keep getting cut and government offices close part time and the homeless are peeing on our front yards.

Public Pensions Face Ugly Choices

No surprise, many mumicipalities are in deep crap. No ne left to bail them out either.

Correct.

And regardless of how one feels about gov employees, private employment has shrunk for decades as jobs have been shipped overseas, which has been deliberately offset by increased public employment and deficit spending, which in turn stimulated private companies.

Deep doo doo now as we can no longer afford increased taxes and deficit spending to keep the economy turning by transferring public $ to private business for very long.

Someone invent a widget to sell to the rest of the world please.

I don't live in Milton Township. Has anyone who does checked their 2009 assessment?

In Bloomingdale Township, every single residential parcel has the exact same value in 2009 as it did in 2008.

The head residential assessor tells me that "the county made them do it".

I asked if he could run the numbers - 3-year, backward looking baseline period of 2008, 2007 and 2006, using median sales prices of arms-length sales only, you know, the same gibberish he told me LAST YEAR was THE LAW! - on just my parcel number.

"No, we cannot do that. We do everything at the township level."

He tells me that in 2010, assessements are CERTAIN to go down. Way down.

But, he adds: "This doesn't mean that your taxes are going down. The taxing bodies are ENTITLED - let me write that again: E-N-T-I-T-L-E-D - to whatever they levied LAST YEAR plus the PTELL allowed increase."

He also mentioned that the PTELL law [commonly called the "tax cap"] is in the [furious] process of being modified down in Abe Lincoln's home town. They want to put a 2% floor in the cap such that if the CPI is less than 2%? Well then, they are still E-N-T-I-T-L-E-D to a 2% increase in their levy.

I also asked him when the township was going to start asking for less money.

"Two people retired this year and we are not going to replace them," was his answer.

So Uncle John and Cousin Merv retired - to generous - but underfunded pensions - and this is a cutback?

Next up for a shout-out? Gwen Henry, CPA

Edit: 8% of my property tax bill goes toward some stranger's pension.

You honestly didn't think that the government was going to cut you any slack now did you.

Employment as percentage of adults probably peaked before the 2000 recession.

Government employment especially state and local employment dramatically increased during the first decade of this century.

Mostly this was due to the real estate boom which brought in large sums of tax dollars from real estate taxes. Wall Street also did pretty well and states like NY and NJ that were heavily dependent on Wall Street salaries and bonuses saw their revenue shoot up as well.

Most government expenditures go to personnel costs. So there was an is very little government expenditure that goes to the private sector.

In short the Private sector was heavily subsidizing the government and its generous employee benefits.

But now that the private sector is not doing that well some of the pain will eventually work its way into the public sector as well.

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Most government expenditures go to personnel costs.

This is true of any operation - public or private. 75% of the DoD budget is spent on wages, benefits and pensions. Only 25% goes to boom-booms and Star Wars missle defense.

Frankly, EAV staying EXACTLY - to the freeking penny - the same in 2009 as it was in 2008 looks like a classic "stall and denial" tactic. So much for all that "it's the law" gobbledygook these assessin' chair-warmers have spouted to me in recent past years.

Clearly, "the law" can be fudged when it comes to Equalized Assessed Valuation of real property.

Have you looked at your 2009 assessment yet?

TP- I think it's the opposite- govt has been heavily subsidizing the private sector for decades to make up for private job losses and keep the economy going. The Feds collect taxes, hire govt workers to keep unemployment down because of jobs lost overseas, and disburse the rest through deficit spending to private interests. It was the only thing we could do as we gradually lost our lead as a manufacturing nation.

And again, Gwen Henry has nothing to do with assessments beyond collecting what's assessed and disbursing it to the taxing agencies. Nevertheless odd things happen in the real estate world but the legal buck stops at the assessors door. Didn't the York twp assessor get in major trouble for under assessing 10-15 years ago?

And it is true that just because assessments fall, taxes don't have to

The county treasuer - Gwen Henry - has to certify every township's gross assessment numbers. This is done at the very end of the assessment process [August-September?] to see if DuPage County needs to apply a County Equalizer, which varies by township.

In Bloomingdale Township, there is no County Equalizer this year yet, the exact dollar amount from last year's EAV, which DID have an equalizer of about 5.2%, is copied-and-pasted into this year's EAV. Not one penny difference. In the entire township.

So yes indeed, Gwen does have a very important role in the assessment process.

Certify is not the same as assess. Certifying means the law has been met as far as the process to collect the tax.

You can appeal your tax to the township if you think its incorrect.

If you think its criminal you call the State's Attorney's office or hire a lawyer.

Appeal my assessment, not my tax. I have already spoken to the assessor and have decided to NOT go through the appeal process. Don't think I could win.

More importantly, all of the taxing bodies are, right now, publishing their legal "intent to levy" notices in the newspapers. They publish dates/times of the public meetings where the levy rate is to be hashed out.

I will likely be attending these for the first time ever, as will a bevy of neighbors.

As it has been explained to me, the County Treasurer is given, by each township, some high-level aggregate numbers to certify and then, through some process that has NOT been explained to me, the Treasuer either applies a County Equalizer or does not.

The County Equalizer, it seems, is designed to "correct" under-assessment in a given township. Now, just how the Treasuer DETERMINES that a given township has been under-assessed?

As clear as mud.

I did ask the assessor if the County Equalizer could ever be negative and he replied in the negative.

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If you think its criminal you call the State's Attorney's office or hire a lawyer.

Meaning? The EAV staying dead-equal year-to-year? Not so much criminal, just unclear why and how it could happen and be certified by the County Treasurer.

If nothing else, I'd just like to know which part of the law allows a "no change" situation, as if no arms-length sales occurred in 2008, 2007 and 2006.

Illinois made the top ten list. Illinois is one of the top ten weakest financial states.

Of course that hasn't stopped our politicians. Illinois will have to pay back 3B in the next eight months. And Quinn the other day came up with a plan to help the CTA, which you guessed it includes more borrowing.

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If nothing else, I'd just like to know which part of the law allows a "no change" situation, as if no arms-length sales occurred in 2008, 2007 and 2006.

I think I have found my answer. Jeez is this stuff buried deeply.

Equalization Factor Calculation Background

I didn't read all of those state law links but my answer is down in the middle of this section, around a table showing, by township, the Required Level and Actual Level, with the Factor. An Equalization Factor of 1.0 indicates that Actual=Required.

Specifically, this sentence seems to be the answer:

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If the Township Assessors' 2009 assessment year revisions change the level of assessment by less than 1%, the State's initial 2009 3-year level of assessment will be the sole basis used to calculate the 2009 Supervisor of Assessment's Equalization Factors.

Not being a barrister or CPA, I take the phrase "the State's initial 2009 3-year level of assessment" to mean initial, as on January 1st of the assessment year.

So, in English: In any given year, if the assessed rate for the entire township is off by 1% - plus or MINUS - when compared to the prior year, it's OK to use the prior year's values.

And Bio - you are correct. The Supervisor of Assessments for DuPage is Craig V. Dovel. Gwen Henry simply handles the billing and collections.

I tell ya, at least there is one IRS web site that you can go to. This property tax mess is spread all over the place.

Gotta wonder: Is that on purpose?

Edit: If you actually dig around at this DuPage County SoA web site, go slowly. Lots of mental gymnastics to be performed. For example, when the site refers to the Supervisor of Assessment Equalization Factor, it really means the County Equalizer. At least, this is the way the taxpayer sees the term. Like, on their bill?

Recall that it is the COUNTY offical known as the SoA who is charged with cipherin' this Supervisor of Assessment Equalization Factor thingy.

And lest we need some more balls in the air, the County Equalizer is likely to differ by Township.

Congrats on your sleuthing.

The intricacies of property tax assessment and collection makes deciphering a phone bill look like nothin' (don't even mention 401 and mutual fund fee disclosures).

And each state does real estate tax as they see fit. You DO gotta wonder if it's on purpose. Just love writing checks while wondering if I'm being ripped off because I can't figure out the charge without delving into it.

Even worse- Illinois counties are not even standardized.

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And each state does real estate tax as they see fit.

Yes, and as you followed-on with - even different counties [and let me add: townships WITHIN counties] have a slightly different spin on things. I think DuPage has eight townships and each one has a different and unique "search database". Some make you register if you want the detailed information, others - like Bloomingdale and Milton - are wide open.

And dare I ask: Just why does the Supervisor of Assessments work on a county payroll but each township has their own operation? Why do we even need townships?

What confused me - because I have a worse memory than I thought - was that I recalled reading about all of this last year. And reading about it at the DuPage County web site. I had a brain fart and completely forgot that, oh yeah, it's not Gwen - the gal who bills and collects - no, there is yet ANOTHER fiefdom I have to ferret out - The Supervisor of Assessments.

Yes, property tax bills just show up on May 1st - here it is, PAY UP. It is hard to get a grip on just how it is calculated, even when the long, drawn-out process is underway.

You have to really, really pay close attention to what happens when and what your rights are. For example, the formal appeal period is long over:

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The period during which an appeal may be filed begins on June 10th of the assessment year, and ends September 10th or thirty days after the publication of the township assessment roll, whichever is later.

I believe that in non-Quad years [referred to as a General Assessment Year at the SoA site - next one is 2011] the "assessment roll" merely has to be published in a newspaper. If you miss it by 9/10? Too bad, so sad, I guess.

This page, the Property Assessment Cycle Overview - DuPage County is a good start.

Sketching a timeline as you follow this text, you'll see that it spans over a year and a half - between assessment and the final September payment arising out of that assessment.

Note that the very last item in this Taxing Festival is pretty much all of us strapped property owners are clear on:

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County Collector -- Deadline: May 1st of Following Year
The County Collector prints and mails the tax bills. Typically this takes place during the last week of April, in the year following the assessment year. The bill is payable in two installments, with the first being normally due on June 1st, and the second becoming due on September 1st. (35 ILCS 200/Tit. 7)

Who pays more in property tax than Federal income tax?