Don't listen to the liberals - Right-wingers really are nicer people, latest research shows

We are more generous as well. Not at all like the stereotypic image which is often portrayed.

Well, I'm not really willing to say that one political affiliation makes a person more nice or more generous. But first, I'd like to point out that Yoss's study was done in England. I'd also like to point out that Democrats, on the whole, tend to be of lower income levels and therefore, have less to give.

On a side note, from my personal observations of who donates money for scholarships for memorials or scholarships, I've found that often the people who make the least, give the most. I've also found that most people who make less money don't keep as close track of their donations and don't always deduct such donations from their taxes.

I haven't really drawn too many final conclusions from these observations, but they are my observations, nonetheless.

People with the "mean people suck" bumper stickers are pretty much talking about themselves?

quote:

Originally posted by Amy:
Well, I'm not really willing to say that one political affiliation makes a person more nice or more generous. But first, I'd like to point out that Yoss's study was done in England. I'd also like to point out that Democrats, on the whole, tend to be of lower income levels and therefore, have less to give.

On a side note, from my personal observations of who donates money for scholarships for memorials or scholarships, I've found that often the people who make the least, give the most. I've also found that most people who make less money don't keep as close track of their donations and don't always deduct such donations from their taxes.

I haven't really drawn too many final conclusions from these observations, but they are my observations, nonetheless.

I have observed that the income taxes we paid last year were very, very high and so were the property taxes. I'm assuming you mean "give the most" as a percentage of income on that donor observation, Amy?

For the record, I am not nicer than Amy is, (who is!?!) but am still generally pretty nice!

I think I'm with GE Mom2 on this one Amy: I DO understand that taxes are a way of life. I just don't want to go the way of Europe with VAT, socialized medicine, etc. They NOR this country can afford it.

Talked to 2 Canadians the other day. 1 was a dentist. Socialized medicine is a shambles up there. If a Canadian can afford it, they come to the US. Now, the Canadian Govt will allow you to deduct 100% of the cost if you seek medical service outside of the system. The wait to get treatment is incredibly long, and that's for a country of 30 million or so. Now take a country of 300 million like ours? It amuses me that Clinton and the dems keep talking about socialized medicine. All you have to do is look across our borders and see the failures like in England, France, etc.

That being said, I do not have a guilty conscious about being "charitable". Our family does way more than it's fair share.

I remember when the Queen of Mean, Leona Helmsey, was on Oprah I think it was. Some idiot in the crowd started berating her for dodging taxes. She promptly replied that she paid in about 100 million in the tax coffers and asked this clown what has he done for his country. The entire crowd applauded Leona's response this idiot sat his a## down.

One must think of the monies paid into the system as well as monies paid out of the systems to designated charities.

Again, like I've said in the past. Don't mind paying it in as long as it's used wisely and efficiently. So far, D41 and to some extent D87 has let me down. Ditto for our state and federal govt's.

Amy-I hope you know I was only kidding with my response. This kind of report is ridiculous and funny at best. I would like to say that Obama finally said something with merit. If he can get the black community to stand up and take care of their families, I would vote for him. It would be well worth the increase taxes if the "change" he is always talking about is this. He gave a great speech. We all know he can do that, let's hope many were listening. Success has many components but family, education and self esteem are at the top of the list. IMO

I would like to add self-respect to that list - that's a biggie IMO.

Right on ST: I wonder how Jessie Jackson and Al Sharpton liked this speech.

Quite frankly, that's one thing I like about Farakhan and Bill Cosby. They are willing to look at a mirror and call an "ace an ace".

We'll see how far it goes. That's what's great about this country, despite Michelle Obama's feelings. There is opportunity here in this country and Barak is a prime example of this, something to be proud of.

you really have to ignore studies like this. for instance: sean hannity. what a hate monger. would not call him a "nice" conservative. or rush limbaugh. or some individuals i know (and may even be related too) and gus, while i think we're on different sides of the aisle politcally, i more than agree with you about how local tax dollars are spent (and a good share of federal dollars as well.) but, as a fellow first generation american, i have to laud a country that has obama as candidate for president. other countries are much more class-bound...and the troubles england is now facing (mobs of unemployed youth, huge welfare rolls, a rigid educational system, with a good share of elitism) show that doesnt work either.

Howdy: German unemployment currently stands at 7.9%. In February of 2008 French unemployment was at 7.5%. Spains rate is about 10.4%.

And these are the strongest economies of Europe.

You wonder why???? It's called SOCIALISM and the WELFARE state, something the far left is pushing us to. Problem is, we have a much LARGER immigration issue and population BASE to contend with.

Who the hell is going to pay for this!! You know who or you should.

Suggest you go to Europe and see for yourself. Look at your hotel or merchandise receipts. There are more taxes than carter has liver pills as I mother quips. VAT, Sales tax, city tax, etc, etc.

The people in Europe EXIST for the most part and I can tell you the middle class is fed up. And I'm not talking about wage earners over 250K like Obama has singled out for his hike in the payroll tax. It's people making 75K+ a year and who show up for work every day.

If Bush or any Dem had an unemployment rate anywhere near this high the Sunday morning news shows would be awash with doom and gloom criticisms.

Howdy, the labor party is now losing out to the conservatives in GB. Labor has lost in France though the ever powerful unions in France are certainlly huge impediments to change in the country. Quite frankly, I NEVER schedule a flight through Paris unless I absolutely have to. You never know when they are going on strike.

And you want the US to model itself after this???????????????????????????????????

Barak's hike in the payroll tax is to salvage social security. How and the hell is he going to pay for the rest of his programs???? Anyone want to enlighten me on this one?

quote:

Originally posted by GEmom2:
I have observed that the income taxes we paid last year were very, very high and so were the property taxes. I'm assuming you mean "give the most" as a percentage of income on that donor observation, Amy?

Yes, that is what I meant - as a percentage of what they have to charities/organizations/individuals in need. And for the record, you're really very nice, GEmom2.


Gus,
You know I agree with you regarding how the money is being spent. I'm honestly "happy" (read that as freely giving/willing) to pay taxes if I know the money isn't being wasted on stupid "pet projects" or things that are simply a poor investment. Of course, what one considers a good project or a good investment is as individual as we all are, which, I think is a big part of what causes the party divide.

ST, Yes, those studies are sort of silly, aren't they? I mean, I can think of many people in both of our major political parties who are genuinely wonderful people as well as individuals from both sides that are complete a**holes. I like to contemplate people and their behaviors...I guess that's what I was doing in response to Yoss's post. Didn't really mean to give it more gravity than it deserved. My response was likely also because I spent the whole day without TV, computer, or lights and couldn't get any housework done without my electricity!

OH, I almost forgot Gus, do you read The Economist? My husband does and gives me the abridged/condensed run-down. He knows much more than that causes me to have convulsions. Anyway, there was a really intersting article about trade deficits....This admin has not done us any favors in that regard. We are in close to the worst shape compared with most of our like-minded allies. It's worth a read. I don't think France is a good model in terms of economy at all - far too much power with the unions. I'm not sure any government/country really has it quite "right" but hopefully, with intelligent, dedicated people who are willing to do what's right for all in spite of offers/tempatations for personal gain, we will someday get it right.

Oh, and we are already paying for the uninsured...why not have a national insurance program so that people will pay SOMETHING rather than the nothing many uninsured are paying right now?

Amy: the US, now the 2nd biggest user of oil in the world after China, and you ask about trade defecits??? Of course, a big chunk of that is foreign oil purchases. Drilling in Alaska and oil shale deposits in the rockies have been nixed not only by the Dems but also by McCain as well.

As to the defecit, I wouldn't get so hung up on this. The manufacturing sector is actually fairly long and resilient. Being "connected" to the auto industry, I am keenly aware that Detroit had better get it's act together. They are always behind the 8 ball when it comes to competing with the off shore producer who for most, have located NON UNION manufacturing sights here in the US. The UAW has tried on several occasions to establish unions at these factories but the employees quietly declined membership??? Why?

The problem is the management AND the politicians don't have the guts to do what is right. And in the meantime, Ohio, Michigan, and even Illinois continue down the path of no return.

The diff between your side and mine is the fact that the govenment doesn't stop spending on BS programs. For sure both parties have been guilty of this but the Dems more so, according to a watch dog group that recently published a report on pork barrel politics. The only solution that the dems put forth are taxes, taxes, and more taxes.

Don't you remember when Clinton floated the idea of a VAT tax and was shot down?

I loved it when Newt and company shut Congress down. But what happened? The press ganged up and re-established the status quo.

Bring me back to the days of Reagan and Stockman.

As to National Insurance, who's going to administer it??? Another Govt bueracracy??? Can't wait to see that one!

Gus,
Can you tell me where I can read/view the report on pork barrel politics? I'd like to read it. What you are saying is also contrary to the sources I've been reading about who is wasting money in Washington....but, really, it's neither here nor there - both are to blame and I'd like to know what is getting spent where. We need to hold lawmaker's feet to the fire.

Yes, I think I have somewhat more faith in government than you do that they are able to run something well. There ARE departments that do. Of course, I still agree that there are many that don't but if we don't get national health insurance, our health care system will crash and there may not be enough life support systems out there to revive it without many, many unnecessary deaths. Sometime I can tell you all about what's happening from my husband's viewpoint within the system as well as my viewpoint in terms of kids not wanting to practice medicine....over a drink one of these days.

My pointing out the article on the trade deficit wasn't necessarily a suggestion that the trade deficit is the culprit of all our woes. But it's too far out of balance. Absolutely we won't be on the plus side of things as long as we rely so much on foreign oil but drilling in the protected lands of Alaska and off-shore, right now, would not be in the best interset of our country in the long run...we can talk about that too sometime.

Dear Amy: being an enviromentalist of sorts, I too am not in favor of tearing up the protected wilderness areas unless we absolutely have to. But I do believe in Lassez Faire economic policies unless we are faced with drastic situations, like the Great Depression. Let market forces work things out is my belief and 4.5/gallon gas will certainly wake a great many of us up. Who has come out with the hybrids??? Toyota, Honda? Catch my drift? Necessity is the mother of invention. We all knew higher prices were coming but probably not this high. The current fuel price we are now paying has been in effect in Europe for years.

AS to the study, it was in the Trib or the Daily Herald. Saw some repubs on the list but more dems for sure. Go find it.

Any organized nation needs a bueracracy. It just has to be controlled and with all the cash generated by this great nation, has led to excesses. Now it's time to buckle down and I just don't see it happening.

Gutting the military is not an option so don't even go there. I talk to retired (WW2, Korean, Nam, and Gulf War) and active service men on a day to day basis, most if not all highly educated and patriotic, and they know there are a LOT of bad guys in this world, financed by drugs, oil, and corruption. These are the guys putting their lives on the line and they stand in amazement at what comes out of the politicians mouths these days.

quote:

Originally posted by Gus:
AS to the study, it was in the Trib or the Daily Herald. Saw some repubs on the list but more dems for sure. Go find it.

OH, well, if they were addressing Illinois politicians, for sure the Dems are far worse at corrupt behavior. It's really a shame because as you know, I do truly believe in the principles of the Democratic party....but corruption is not one of them.

I don't think gutting the military is an option either - I wouldn't go there. But I do think we could make much wiser decisions about how we use our military....

Amy: have you been monitoring whats going on in Argentina. Place is damn near in civil war. Even the unions are striking back at the central government, their basis of support.

I go to BA twice a year at least. Place coming unhinged again.

A perfect example of government corruption + incredibly strong labor unions + government interference in the private sector + inflation + huge import tariffs, etc, etc.

The policies of the peronistas have finally come to bear. The most inefficient country in South America. The Chileans and Brazilians are laughing all the way to the bank.

quote:

Originally posted by Gus:
German unemployment currently stands at 7.9%. In February of 2008 French unemployment was at 7.5%. Spains rate is about 10.4%.

I know you guys are having fun and just talking between friends. But there's some large issues in your discussion that deserve some light from a different source. For anyone who needs a rule of thumb, it should be this: don't believe the government's economic measurements. You may not be comparing apples to apples when you cite U.S. unemployment figures in relation to those from other countries. Same situation for any other economic measurements. Here is some discussion about how the US distorts its employment figures:

shadow stats dot com Employment and Unemployment Reporting

Up until the Clinton administration, a discouraged worker was one who was willing, able and ready to work but had given up looking because there were no jobs to be had. The Clinton administration dismissed to the non-reporting netherworld about five million discouraged workers who had been so categorized for more than a year. As of July 2004, the less-than-a-year discouraged workers total 504,000. Adding in the netherworld takes the unemployment rate up to about 12.5%.

Compare THAT figure to the ones you get from Europe. Yea, the figure's from 2004, but know that today's figures are similarly distorted.

And here is a synopsis from Kevin Phillips, originally a GOP operative who predicted the Republican ascendence with his book The Emerging Repblican Majority. Phillips has 'turned', evidently he does not like the Bush's. He has a new book out now - Bad Money - from which the following article is based:

Hard numbers: The economy is worse than you know

I don't want to start, or continue, a fight. I read these discussions with interest. I just wish to let folks know that there are problems with government's figures, because there is a long history of deception behind them. It has nothing to do with the type of government it is, left or right, democratic or not, socialist or not, and everything to do with the fact that it is government at all.

Good point Sances: But, consistency is the word. Here in the US, our central govt collects data like no other country in the world. Take the Commerce Dept as an example. Generally speaking, the same rules have applied for Clinton that applies to Bush say. Like USDA crop estimates, if ever faulty, who would beleive them???

I like your closing statement "and everything to do with the fact that it is government at all".

Sure, lots of Joe jobs out there. Things ebb and flow. I still have faith in the American worker and productivity, the best in the world. The government should be there to encourage, not discourage.

As far as I can tell, the Great State of Illinois is a perfect example of the illness affecting this country:

high taxes
strong unions
declining manufacturing acitivity
corruption

It is now part of the rust belt. Go to Toledo Ohio or Detroit Michigan and tell me what you see.