GlenEllynite
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quote: Originally posted by Gus:
However, to lump Bush Jr. in with the same crowd like Bill or Hillary Clinton is erroneous. Remember that Bill Clinton did nothing after 6 attacks on the US.
Didn't Patrick Fitzgerald convict the head of the first WTC bombings? I agree that we make strange partners in our quest to control world events. Reagan partnered up with the Taliban. We propped up Vietnam's corrupt government. We do it all the time. And we will do it again, no matter who is President. My view is that the Anti-Hillary crowd is so rabid that the foam on their mouths mess up the discussion.
Ronald M. Kas
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GlenEllynite
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quote: Originally posted by ronkas:
My view is that the Anti-Hillary crowd is so rabid that the foam on their mouths mess up the discussion.
Count me as part of the Anti-Hillary crowd - but that is well said and likely true. LOOK! IT'S A HILL-BILLY! 
"Often Wrong, Never in Doubt"
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| Posts: 5762 | Location: Glen Ellyn, Illinois | Registered: June 09, 2004 |  |
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GlenEllynite
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quote: Originally posted by GE Fan: quote: Originally posted by ronkas:
My view is that the Anti-Hillary crowd is so rabid that the foam on their mouths mess up the discussion.
Count me as part of the Anti-Hillary crowd - but that is well said and likely true. LOOK! IT'S A HILL-BILLY!
You just don't like big firm attorneys who are female.
Ronald M. Kas
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GlenEllynite
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Ronkas: the world is an ever fluid enviroment, as you well know.
Remember the taliban/US relationship: The enemy of my enemy is my friend. In a sick sort of way, they helped to bring down the iron curtain as well.
Remember that the arab countries are very much divided politcally, ethnically, and religously.
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GlenEllynite
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quote: Originally posted by Gus:
Ronkas: the world is an ever fluid enviroment, as you well know.
Remember the taliban/US relationship: The enemy of my enemy is my friend. In a sick sort of way, they helped to bring down the iron curtain as well.
Remember that the arab countries are very much divided politcally, ethnically, and religously.
I am in the divorce business. I know how friends become enemies. Speaking of divorce, did you see my colleague, Ms. Fetman, in the Sun-Times today?
Ronald M. Kas
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GlenEllynite
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Pardon my ignorance, who is Ms. Fetman???
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GlenEllynite
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GlenEllynite
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Totally Awesome.Weird picture...I hope the other ones are better. Ron, would you please fill us in when they come out? Thanks.
"Often Wrong, Never in Doubt"
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| Posts: 5762 | Location: Glen Ellyn, Illinois | Registered: June 09, 2004 | |
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GlenEllynite
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Gosh, if you didn't read the captions for both Clamato's or Fan's photos, one would think they might read, "Life is short - Get a gigantic boob job or pec implants." But maybe that's just me???  |
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GlenEllynite
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quote: Originally posted by Gus:
Remember that Bill Clinton did nothing after 6 attacks on the US.
I'm no historian but there were not 6 attacks on the US. There may have been 6 attacks on US interests. But 9/11 was on US soil so a reaction was justified. I agree with you re: first gulf war and Afghanastan as well as the stupid error of invading Iraq but I disagree with your assessment of Clinton's administration. There were several covert operations that did occur - one that became particularly well-known because of it's dismal failure. Nonetheless, I still think Clinton was a far better President. At least the budget got balanced and we started enjoying a surplus....it kills be when people conveniently forget that. Love you still though, Gus! 
"The most valuable things in life are not measured in monetary terms. The really important things are not houses and lands, stocks and bonds, automobiles and real state, but friendships, trust, confidence, empathy, mercy, love and faith. " -Bertrand Russell V. Delong
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| Posts: 3214 | Location: Glen Ellyn, IL | Registered: April 04, 2003 | |
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GlenEllynite
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I'm no apologist for Billy Clinton. In fact, I enjoyed his presidency. But in the words of Vicky Hase, the U.S. and world economies are cyclical. It's just a roll of the dice as to who is lucky enough to be sitting in the oval office when the phat times are being enjoyed. I can't remember any policy the Clinton administration put forth to make us so rich back in the '90's.
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GlenEllynite
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Well, if it's about which one made us rich, then I've got a bone to pick with all of them. Fortunately, or unfortunately, for me it's never been about that. I think it's true that it's mostly dumb luck who is sitting in office during the prosperous and not so prosperous times.
The more important role of the commander-in-chief is to be diplomatic and to foster cooperation among allies. That's where personality and likeability are important and Big Bill had both of those in spades, am I right ladies? Ronald Reagan is considered to have been charming and personable. Yes, some say W is a friendly guy, but his policies have left the United States hated globally. I'm looking for the next leader to at least find it important to reach out to other countries and mend some fences.
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GlenEllynite
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quote: Originally posted by Amy: quote: Originally posted by Gus:
Remember that Bill Clinton did nothing after 6 attacks on the US.
I'm no historian but there were not 6 attacks on the US. There may have been 6 attacks on US interests.
We had 1) 1993 WTC bombing 2) 1996 Khobar Towers bombing in Saudi Arabia quote: According to the United States, classified evidence suggests that the government of Iran was the key sponsor of the incident, and several high ranking members of their military may have been involved.[3][4] The U.S. government may have been hesitant to more aggressively pursue the offenders within the Iranian military due to the recent rise of a more reformist government and a desire to enhance relations with Iran at the time. This, however, without any proof is pure speculation especially since connecting Iran and Al Qaida is difficult and would require strong evidence. A U.S. federal court has speculated that the Khobar Towers bombing was authorized by Ali Khamenei, the Supreme Leader of Iran.[5]
3) 1998 Embassy bombings in Tanzania and Kenya quote: In response to the bombings, U.S. President Bill Clinton ordered Operation Infinite Reach, a series of cruise missile strikes on targets in Sudan and Afghanistan on August 20, 1998, announcing the planned strike in a primetime address on American television.
In Sudan, the missiles destroyed the Al-Shifa pharmaceutical plant, where 50% of Sudan's medications for both people and animals were manufactured. The U.S. government claimed that there was ample evidence to prove that the plant produced chemical weapons, but a thorough investigation after the missile strikes revealed that the intelligence was unreliable[4].
4) 2000 USS Cole What were the other two, Gus? |
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| Posts: 1864 | Location: Glen Ellyn | Registered: June 04, 2003 | |
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GlenEllynite
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Dear Amy: Clinton was a republican in a Dems clothing. He favored NAFTA and Free Trade and only raised taxes modestly. Something the unions screamed about. However, he inherited a world economy going gangbusters primarily due to the free trade agenda pushed by Reagan and the Republicans, FACT. Not only is free trade good for the world, but it has a way of taking out dictatorships through the exchange of goods, services, and ideas. It brings the world closer.
It was a documented fact the George Jr. was inheriting an economy going into recession when slick Willy left office. Despite 9/11 and a faltering economy, Bush's tax breaks saved the day, a fact for sure. The US economy has been extremely resilient.
As to attacks on the US, I dont give a rats A## if they happen hear or not. they are still attacks on the red white and blue. Remember that the World Trade Center was attacked twice. First time it didn't take it down, under Bill's watch. Sooner or later, they will be at our doorstep if not dealt with,like 9/11. The US and some of it's key allies are the only one with any guts to deal with the bullies in the world. Look at Libya and North Korea for example. Don't see too many articles congratulating the Bush admin in dealing with that nut cake in N. Korea.
Don't judge Bush on the opinions of newspaper or TV editors and journalists. Travel around the world and you hear quite different opinions. Most in this world appreciate the relationship they have with our good country. Ask our military personell, a Kurdish or Shiite citizen in Iraq (the majority) about our nation/peace keeping mission there. You will hear quite a different story than what you read in the newspapers. Even the Dems backed off from their demands for an immediate pullout after visiting Iraq. Does an exit strategy need to exist, you betcha. But it has to make sense.
Love, Gus
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GlenEllynite
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quote: Originally posted by Gus:
Dear Amy: Clinton was a republican in a Dems clothing. He favored NAFTA and Free Trade and only raised taxes modestly. Something the unions screamed about. However, he inherited a world economy going gangbusters primarily due to the free trade agenda pushed by Reagan and the Republicans, FACT. Not only is free trade good for the world, but it has a way of taking out dictatorships through the exchange of goods, services, and ideas. It brings the world closer.
It was a documented fact the George Jr. was inheriting an economy going into recession when slick Willy left office. Despite 9/11 and a faltering economy, Bush's tax breaks saved the day, a fact for sure. The US economy has been extremely resilient.
As to attacks on the US, I dont give a rats A## if they happen hear or not. they are still attacks on the red white and blue. Remember that the World Trade Center was attacked twice. First time it didn't take it down, under Bill's watch. Sooner or later, they will be at our doorstep if not dealt with,like 9/11. The US and some of it's key allies are the only one with any guts to deal with the bullies in the world. Look at Libya and North Korea for example. Don't see too many articles congratulating the Bush admin in dealing with that nut cake in N. Korea.
Don't judge Bush on the opinions of newspaper or TV editors and journalists. Travel around the world and you hear quite different opinions. Most in this world appreciate the relationship they have with our good country. Ask our military personell, a Kurdish or Shiite citizen in Iraq (the majority) about our nation/peace keeping mission there. You will hear quite a different story than what you read in the newspapers. Even the Dems backed off from their demands for an immediate pullout after visiting Iraq. Does an exit strategy need to exist, you betcha. But it has to make sense.
Love, Gus
Now, Gus. Fox News is starting to speak here. Either the economy was good under Bill or not. Either the deficit exploded under W or it didn't. Either the Republicans were in charge of Congress during that deficit or not. FACT: WTC was attacked during Clinton's watch and the perpetrators were brought to justice. It didn't come down because the bomb was in the basement. 8 years later, two jets brought down the towers from well documented building situations that the terrorists never considered (jet fuel, intensity of fire, interior structure). They never expected it to happen that way either. I judge Bush on what I see, and what I know of history.
Ronald M. Kas
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GlenEllynite
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Fox News? C'mon Ron. Clinton was a pacificist and unwilling to deal with the problems of international terrorism. He was too busy being politically correct. His dismantling of intelligence coupled with his utter contempt for the military caused the problems we have here today. In 1997 BinLaden publicly declared Jihad on the U.S., yet Clinton refused to eliminate this threat on 2 different occassions. This has nothing to do with Fox News. Clinton over used diplomacy when military intervention would have been better. His wife is going to be far worse. What good is a thriving economy if you're not around to enjoy it?
"You shouldn't soil your Sunday pants, like those other foolish ants."
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GlenEllynite
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quote: Originally posted by bitterboy:
What good is a thriving economy if you're not around to enjoy it?
Now that is some solid Fox News reporting. "We must bomb the terrorists everywhere and vote republican or you're all going to die" Come on. Clinton was an average President at best....Bush is merely average to below average. Can we agree on that?
"Often Wrong, Never in Doubt"
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| Posts: 5762 | Location: Glen Ellyn, Illinois | Registered: June 09, 2004 | |
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GlenEllynite
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I do not agree with all that Bush has done, particularly in his second term. Clinton had some strong points, the military and our country's safety don't rank high among them. It all comes down to what your core issues are I suppose. Diplomacy does not work with terrorists.
"You shouldn't soil your Sunday pants, like those other foolish ants."
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GlenEllynite
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quote: Originally posted by bitterboy:
I do not agree with all that Bush has done, particularly in his second term. Clinton had some strong points, the military and our country's safety don't rank high among them. It all comes down to what your core issues are I suppose.
Diplomacy does not work with terrorists.
But diplomacy works to eliminate threats by cooperative action with the surrounding governments. Eliminating Hussein, while desirable, was not planned. Any military man is going to ask, "how do I get out, once I invade." As to his first term, he lied in his State of the Union address, not about sex, but about nuclear capabilities; he manipulated intelligence to invade Iraq; he hung out some of this country's best military minds when they did not agree with his narrow and dangerous view of the military's role in the Middle East; and he outed a covert CIA operative. Oh, that's right. He was going to prosecute whoever leaked that one. Then he commuted the sentence of the fall guy. When I say he did this, I mean "on his watch". Afghanistan was the correct course post 9/11. We then heard endless propaganda about the "connection" between Hussein and Bin Laden. There was none.
Ronald M. Kas
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GlenEllynite
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I have the good fortune to have met a few interesting people in my life. My best freind in College's father is a 2 star retired general. Former Commandant at west point, on the joint chiefs of staff, veteran of Viet Nam, etc, etc.
My other friend graduated from College (Miami of Ohio) and admittedly, no direction after school. Joined the army to learn satellite communications Served in Bosnia and Macedonia during the Yugoslavian civil war. Served the white house and flew on Air Force 1 (under Clinton and Bush Jr.), 2 (Gore and Cheney), and under Rumsfeld. Very tight lipped about his experiences.
My Army buddy told me that Clinton was Great, a party atmosphere when on the road. Bush, all Business, man your posts, no screwing around. Gore was a condescending A##Hole, nobody liked the guy including the secret service. Cheney all business too.
Clinton was a great guy to be with. When it came to a war footing, questionable. That's why Paneta left. Madeline Albright said the other night that the white house was totally disorganized. Party atmosphere.
If you want more info, meet me at Shannons and lets talk.
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