I disagree about the "Vote No" signs everywhere. The "Vote No" mentality was everywhere...residents had had enough of the fiscal highjinx on Main Street...but signs were limited to a few with testicular virility.

How many of those signs were distributed, anyway?

I remember either Ron or Rob coming over to swap out the cardboard sign with an improved version of the No sign only to be confronted by Parker asking what the **** he was doing with our sign.

GE Fan,

I humbly apologize. I wish we had that "tv" here.

Sorry.

How do we expand into other districts?

"How many of those signs were distributed, anyway?"

250ish

quote:

Originally posted by Bruno Behrend:


Local newspapers even play along with the scam, refusing to interview "opposition" that isn't "local." (While the PTA/PTO thought police make sure that strong social "shunning" and hazing are visited upon anyone who questions the cult-like aura of "public schools.)

It's time to blow the whistle on that pile of crap.

You must be getting the same weekly paper we get (but here even the local opposition is ignored).

And you are right about those who dare to ask questions, let alone, publicly oppose the district. I've witnessed the shunning of parents. "You want to volunteer for ___________ at school Mrs./Mr.___________? Thanks, we have plenty of volunteers for that. Maybe next time." While the thought of being shunned by the in-crowd may scare others into silence, I know plenty of people who don't back away. Afterall, what kind of message does it send to the kids to feel so strongly but not be willing to draw the line and not take a stand?

This message has been edited. Last edited by: ohma,

quote:

Originally posted by Bruno Behrend:
jombl,

While your point is well-taken, the "parochial" nature of the "district model" is one of the ways that the education bureaucracy divides and conquers. I would argue that your schools are about as "local" as your McDonalds. You have just about that much power to "change the menu."......

If you vote spending down, they just come back twice a year until it passes. If you put in a "reform" board (rare, but there are a few), the Superintendent merely stonewalls until they find more "pliable" board members.

Where is the process by which citizens can get a petition to rollback taxes? There isn't one. We need to change that.........

It has become a power and patronage play for adults, and your children have become an afterthought, used only when they need to sow fear or flog you for more money. Some one go to your next PTA meeting and say that. Keep saying it until they wake up.

That attitude is partially responsible for the make up of fear and antipathy that makes people avoid these very situations. There is a very "local" and "vocal" group that has become more than informed on the tactics this school board uses to ratchet up the bottom line. "Changing the menu" is as easy (and hard) as staying informed and stepping up at the right times. More and more people have venues (like this BB, and others) that allow the freedom of information to make informed decisions that were not available in the past. Skyrocketing taxes are just one of the various reasons more people have stayed informed and acted upon that information. One of the reasons the ref failed in April was the amount of accurate information that was available to discount the whitewash atempted by the Board and PTA. Why the narrow loss in RF? Not a large enough mechanism to fund and oppose the Board. Could that have been accomplished with an ongoing message to the public well in advance of the spending needed to combat the referendum campaign? I would think that would have likely drawn out more people to fund and support your opposition. I applaud the effort, as I personally know how much time, money and energy goes into this fight. You live to fight another day....start the information campaign sooner.

I believe that a true "reform" board is a dream. The system (as you said) is inherently broken. No amount of right thinking Board members will be able to change everything, but it is a start in the right direction. This town is abuzz with two "reform" candidates on the board and one on the Village Council. I hope this carries over to subsequent elections to see what is possible.

"Where is the process by which citizens can get a petition to rollback taxes? There isn't one. We need to change that" I agree completely. In the abscence of this mechanism, it makes it al the more important for freedom of current information to flow to the community to oppose any new tax/spend thinking.

The idealist in me would like to believe that we, in this state, are awakening to issues that did not affect us on the scale it does today. I would like to think that we are a more informed community able to have a more direct say in local issues. That having been said, I directly oppose the idea Income Tax funded equal schools. I like the "control" in my local school system. I do not want to face off against the State, just my neighbors.

Well Ohma, when 70% of the people shot down the last ref for 41 I can't say we're in a minoirity. With the latest RE tax bill which is now truly reflecting the phase in shafting, more and more people are coming over to "our side". People vote with their pocketbooks at some point in time and it's finally sunk in. Too bad it took so long dating back to the IRATE days for a public awakening. BTW Bruno, do you remember the tax watchdog group IRATE?

I know quite a few people in this town that think we're crazy but they're mostly the ones sitting on undervalued/taxed homes not paying anywhere near their fair share and ready to write a check on someone's elses account.

All we have to do is keep on shooting down unnecessary ref's unless they really make sense.

BTW Bruno, we have 2 very good board members that are monitoring the situation as close as they can. We just need 2 to 3 more. You are right Bruno, education has become a big business which I have been saying for some time. Time to run and act like one I say.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Gus,

quote:

Originally posted by GE Fan:
Ronkas, you anonymous SOB, I'll let you do the explaining. But I'll give you a cliff-note version...it was a 80-20 beatdown with "Vote No" signs EVERYWHERE.

The "NO" vote was the result of the Board putting forth a referendum for an idea which lacked any semblance of common sense. From that silly idea, it was apparent there was a plurality of voters who would vote NO for the first time. I was fortunate to get a letter to the editor printed and my involvement grew from there.

There were certain people who were involved with Preserve41 who could never identify themselves. They were our resources. There was nothing the Board and Superintendent could say in their quasi-legal mailings regarding "updates" which we did not answer. Quickly. The proponents of the referendum would be shocked to learn the identities of some of our group. Helped us set up a website and get the word out.

I chose to put my name out there because too many of our opponents used the "anonymous" accusation about this bulletin board. I still do. Many of our group opened their mouths at information meetings. Ohma's version of payback is entirely accurate.

Lost some friends. Found some friends. But I know for a fact that some of our strongest supporters could not even put a sign in their yard, knowing what payback can be.

Wow, so sinister. So cool.

quote:

Originally posted by ronkas:

I chose to put my name out there because too many of our opponents used the "anonymous" accusation about this bulletin board. I still do. Many of our group opened their mouths at information meetings. Ohma's version of payback is entirely accurate.

Lost some friends. Found some friends. But I know for a fact that some of our strongest supporters could not even put a sign in their yard, knowing what payback can be.

Real friends should be able agree to disagree with out losing the relationship. I assume they were no great loss.

Well said Scotty.

The real loss is that Fan and yours truly snuck into his life.

Ignorance can be cured. Stupid is forever.

quote:

Originally posted by ronkas: I still do. Many of our group opened their mouths at information meetings. Ohma's version of payback is entirely accurate.

... But I know for a fact that some of our strongest supporters could not even put a sign in their yard, knowing what payback can be.

Absolute truth. There exists a machine in Glen Ellyn that does use every social tool in it's arsenal to intimidate, (This happens when and wherever anyone questions power in D41) ostracize, (This happens when one opposes the pronouncements and positions of the D41 powers) and destroy. (This occurred to Michael Lynch after he tried to pull back the curtain on D41 and expose the fraud behind the most recent tax hike.)

As I try to maintain my anonymity I've only been exposed to Level 1, (Intimidation), after nothing more than asking questions of D41 at a public meeting. Let's just say that certain PTA leaders are very effective shock troops and are quite clear in their tactics.

As I try to maintain my anonymity I've only been exposed to Level 1, (Intimidation), after nothing more than asking questions of D41 at a public meeting. Let's just say that certain PTA leaders are very effective shock troops and are quite clear in their tactics.

As difficult as it is, the most effective thing to do is to go aggressively on the offensive, calling the PTA types to the carpet.

"Our side" (reformers of all stripes) misses a huge opportunity when it fails to fight hard. For those interested in a long essay, I wrote a long essay on a strategy to defeat the education monopoly.

A Conceptual Framework for Undermining Support for Public Education

The short version...expose them as liars, and expose their supporters as supporting lies.

Political correctness is NOT about being polite. It is a form of social control, and a sinister form at that.

quote:

"I heard a singer on the radio late last night, said he's going to kick the darkness til it bleeds daylight."

---U2

You know, I just don't pay attention to the intimidation and what-not. Perhaps I've gotten off lucky but I just don't regard it. I can handle being socially ostracized by any group of parents. My only real concern is for my kids and their education. Luckily, we have a professional group of teachers who have never held anything against my kids even when I've been very vocal. Heck, some of them have quietly/secretly thanked me. I know it's easier said than done but as adults, we have to stand up for what we know is right. Our kids learn a lot from our actions. I believe it is possible to voice one's opinion and stand firm without being hateful.

That said, what happened when 3.14 was in charge was shameful. The treatment of certain members of this community was despicable. He-who-must-not-be-named didn't overtly exhert as much venom but is certainly wasn't much better. I keep hoping we are at a turning point now. I think Dr. R would be wise to look around at her staff/board and make wise decisions about who should really be advising her.

quote:

Originally posted by Bruno Behrend:
As I try to maintain my anonymity I've only been exposed to Level 1, (Intimidation), after nothing more than asking questions of D41 at a public meeting. Let's just say that certain PTA leaders are very effective shock troops and are quite clear in their tactics.

As difficult as it is, the most effective thing to do is to go aggressively on the offensive, calling the PTA types to the carpet.

"Our side" (reformers of all stripes) misses a huge opportunity when it fails to fight hard. For those interested in a long essay, I wrote a long essay on a strategy to defeat the education monopoly.

A Conceptual Framework for Undermining Support for Public Education

The short version...expose them as liars, and expose their supporters as supporting lies.

Political correctness is NOT about being polite. It is a form of social control, and a sinister form at that.

quote:

"I heard a singer on the radio late last night, said he's going to kick the darkness til it bleeds daylight."

---U2

See, this is where we part company. I am not about exposing or tearing apart public education. I am not about ranting and equating the public education system with the Democratic Party control over black voters. (?!) The system of public education is necessary. But it is like any other publicly owned business. The District Board and Superintendent, like any other Board of Directors and CEO, should be called to answer. When their answers are not good enough, follow up questions should be asked. When they hide a lawsuit seeking redress for a loss suffered by the shareholders, they should be called out. When they give a contract to a "connected" insurance broker, and that deal does not work out for the best interests of the District, is it the fault of the shareholders (stakeholders) who failed to ask questions? Or is it the failure of a fiduciary duty the trustees have to the public?

Your arguments and your link remind me of the people who throw blood or paint on women wearing fur. Scalpels are much more effective surgical tools than meat cleavers.

Ron,

We can agree to disagree here, and I respect your viewpoint.

I don't know that I'm supporting the equivalent of "throwing paint on fur".

I do not support "assault" or any other tort.

I could also argue that this thread is a perfect example of my essay in action, and that the only difference is my more heated rhetoric.

If the monopoly wants people to stop calling them liars, all they have to do is stop lying. I've seen enough examples to feel confident that if it is a School Superintendent saying it, it would be a good idea to verify every word.

I don't want to tear apart "public education". I want to tear apart their monopoly, and the political clout that makes that monopoly possible. The "Education Industry" and an "educated populace" are 2 different things.

I support the latter, and make the case the case the former is enriching itself while undermining the latter.

You take the scalpel, I'll take the meat cleaver. Let's see who cuts fastest. Society wins in either case.

But Amy, I believe it was you that got a bit "teary" at a D41 meeting due to the rift being created by refs and the shenanigans of "that Math formula" et al! You raised the issue of neighbor vs neighbor in this town created by the district, and I wrote a post after the meeting in your support. I didn't even know you at that time. What I think has happened you have "steeled" yourself and better apt at taking the abuse, like the rest of us. I just remember I was moved by your speech at the podium.

My dearest Gus,
I didn't say I LIKED the ostracising. I just said I won't let it keep me from speaking my mind. It still sucks and is wrong but I will still speak my mind. And I thank you for your support!

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