I'm not trying to start an argument or anything, but just curious about folks' opinions concerning some terms that get bandied about quite often. Namely, what do you consider the most useful terms to distinguish between folks of different income, and what do you consider the annual income levels distinguishing between those (assuming a family of 4)?

I'll start first and offer the following "classes", with numbers just tossed off the top of my head:

poor - I think a family of 4 earning less than $40G, is leading a pretty poor quality of life by today's standards.

lower middle class - $40-70G. I know $70G can seem a pretty high income, but if there are 2 earners, they are probably working pretty hard and pretty low earning jobs to support that income level.

middle class - This is the troublesome group, as I think generally most folk consider themselves to be middleclass, no matter how much or how little they earn. I'll say $70-150G. Above $70G you can engage in more discretionary spending, and afford some more luxuries instead of simply living paycheck to paycheck.

upper middle class - In my opinion, a family earning over $150G is pretty darned well off. If they find things tight, it is because they are enjoying a pretty lavish lifestyle. So I'll say $150-500G. I set the upper end a little high, because I feel you need to distinguish between these and the really well off.

wealthy - IMO, someone earning over $500G qualifies as pretty wealthy.

I think that the category of wealthy may depend on assets rather than simply income, more than the other groups. And debt may be a significant factor for the three middle classes.

Well, that's my initial guess, and I'm surely not wedded to it. What do you think?

Oh - and if you wish, you can indicate where you are under your - or anyone elses's classification. Using my groups, my family is middle class.

As Jombl's stat would indicate, this is very dependent on location location location and cost of living. Maybe we should restrict your dollar amounts to pertaining ot the Chicago metro area.

MI87 good point about location etc. A 150K income in GE will not let you live a "lavish lifestyle".

Dinsdale I have several problems with your groupings. First terms like Poor/Rich are relativistic and subject to wildly different interpretations. Also your groupings ignore several things, first you seem to believe that all Households comprise four people, according to the latest census figures I believe that less than 30% of all households live in such arrangements. So lets take a few examples. Say you are a recent college graduate you're starting salary say at GW would be around 35K per year in your eyes they are poor most people would disagree with you on that . Consider a retiree living on a pensions and savings and SS. Say combined income of 40K, but with mortgage paid, no bills etc. and say 400k in savings again you would call them poor.

Lower Middle Class Married couple new in the workforce no children combined income 70K again, or a retiree or retired couple with pension,ss, and investment income.


One point to make is that these income levels are not hard and fast, people move in and out of them through their working lives. You start out at the lower end but if you do the smart things, common sense things you can go up the income levels. I know because I've lived it so have most of the people I've worked with . If you think about your fist job, first apartment etc and compare it to where you are now. I would guess that you would see tremendous changes. Does this happen to everyone no of course not. But I would guess that the people who it hasn't happened have made mistakes ( not finishing school, marrying or having children to young or having legal or other problems which hinder them from advancing ) . One thing we need for these changes to happen is to have a growing dynamic economy. A static or shrinking economy leads to people being so scared about their future that they try to protect what they have now. This is one of the reasons for Europe's chronic high unemployment.

When Bush first put through his tax cuts, The Democrats criticized it for not helping the economy. Once the economy began to grow, they started to criticize it because the deficit got higher. But once the goverment's revenues started to increase faster than projected and the Deficit began to shrink their only complaint is now to state that the rich/poor gap has increased. Why I won't disagree with that, On the larger more important issues Bush's plans have worked.

Depends on which side of that gap you're on.

I find it somewhat amusing that terms such as "poor, wealthy, rich, middle-class" are in such common usage, but no one is willing to step forward and offer their anonymous interpretations of what those terms actually mean.
Makes me wonder what we think we might be accomplishing when we use such terms.
No worries. Just thought it would be an interesting exercise. Guess I was alone in that!

poor-me (actually by your definition middle class)
rich-Clam
wealthy-Dinsdale
middle class-most of the board
filthy rich-Fish

Dins, we could go to McD's next free coffee Monday and check out who is in line. See if that helps clarify some of these questions. I'll buy you a small cup of coffee while we're there.

quote:

Originally posted by my2cents:
poor-me (actually by your definition middle class)
rich-Clam
wealthy-Dinsdale
middle class-most of the board
filthy rich-Fish

I am surrounded by filthy rich, but am only filthy.

I of course define "richness" in terms of the amount of love that I have for all of those people close to me, including every last member of this online community.

quote:

Originally posted by Fish:

I am surrounded by filthy rich, but am only filthy.

I of course define "richness" in terms of the amount of love that I have for all of those people close to me, including every last member of this online community.

I am surrounded by the dirt poor but am only Dirt.
I of course define "poor" as not being able to have anything that the filthy can afford. I too love everyone but in a poor way.
BTW. Its been about an hour, Has[fill in the blank]Fan changed his name again?

Drive down Lenox to St. Charles. The line is clearly visible.
The time is free. Thats why I can afford it.
BTW. How did you know I just waxed the Snomos? Thats 300 miles away.

quote:

Originally posted by Arten:
Drive down Lenox to St. Charles. The line is clearly visible.
The time is free. Thats why I can afford it.
BTW. How did you know I just waxed the Snomos? Thats 300 miles away.

Jombl knows all...just ask him.

LOL.

Anyone who makes less than you is poor, anyone who makes more is Rich, you are middle class.

quote:

Originally posted by jombl:
So poor begins at two homes, multiple cars, cable, DSL, shiny snowmobiles and ample free time.

I'd hate to see where the poverty line is.

We invested in a 2nd home instead of cruises and vacations.
I've been driving the same car for almost 11 years.
Cable and DSL is not just for the rich.
The shiny snowmobiles are shiny only because Arten takes exceptional care of them. They're 5-12 years old.
Ample free time? You make me laugh. When you own your own business, you're the last to get paid and the last to get time off when times aren't so good.

Don't judge by what you see externally. You don't know what sacrifices people make to have what they have.

Touche'?

We are so not well off that we have a 36 year-old car.

Touche'!!!

TOUCHE'!!!!

Not touchy at all. I just dislike people pigeon-holing people. I've seen the envy in peoples' eyes at what they think are extravegant life styles. You might be surprised to learn that the house you covet has no furniture in it. The big, fancy car is worth less than it is financed for. I'm no better or worse than anyone else. If you want to judge me, do it for who I am and what I give back to the community, not for what I have.

And by the way, I consider us to be wealthy. Not by Dinsdale's measure, but by the fact that Arten is still with me despite quintuple by-pass surgery, Tony is happily married with a new family, and our being able to retire and enjoy life while we're still semi-young.

quote:

Originally posted by taxpayer:
Anyone who makes less than you is poor, anyone who makes more is Rich, you are middle class.

Without question taxpayer.......this is the smartest thing you've ever said. Could not be any more accurate.

quote:

Originally posted by Mrs Arten:
Not touchy at all. I just dislike people pigeon-holing people. I've seen the envy in peoples' eyes at what they think are extravegant life styles. You might be surprised to learn that the house you covet has no furniture in it. The big, fancy car is worth less than it is financed for. I'm no better or worse than anyone else. If you want to judge me, do it for who I am and what I give back to the community, not for what I have.

And by the way, I consider us to be wealthy. Not by Dinsdale's measure, but by the fact that Arten is still with me despite quintuple by-pass surgery, Tony is happily married with a new family, and our being able to retire and enjoy life while we're still semi-young.

Hell, the house I don't covet has no furniture in it. When did Arten have the heart surgery?