In a thread on a different topic, some folks expressed an interest in discussing efforts to assist the homeless, including PADS.

Tho these topics have been discussed elsewhere on these boards in the past, I thought it might be appropriate to devote a thread to this important and emotionally charged topic.

Thanks Dins for moving the discussion...

Bitterboy you had some great stats about PADS. Unfortunately, our local churches don't get it- they want to get all worked up about the homeless "problem" and feel that they are doing their parts to help humanity but don't see that PADS is doing little more than enabling the homeless to continue doing what they're doing. The suggestion someone made that if the church MEMBERS actually took the homeless into their own homes made a lot of sense.

Our newest trolls need to get off their PC horses and see what PADS has done to our town. 18 years ago when we moved here there was a smattering (maybe only 2 or 3) of homegrown homeless. When PADS expanded, what we (and many other neighboring towns) experienced was an influx of the nomadic homeless, moving from town to town as the shelter schedule dictated. On days that they are in GE, Starbucks is full of them and their "luggage", the library becomes a place where you won't let your kids go alone, and the benches are also off limits to locals. I'd be willing to bet that the pleasantries and greetings you receive from them are usually a warm up to them hitting you up for change.

It's unfortunate that this has become such a huge issue, and one that everyone is afraid to talk about publicly. This is something that the Chamber, the EDC, and the newly formed groups that want to rejuvenate downtown will need to face head on if they want to make any meaningful impact.

Sadiesue, don't start berating me and all of the others who hate the PADS probram for being snobs...I do not hate the homeless. I would love to see them able to get off of the streets. I gladly donate my time and money to people and causes that I feel actually help people live better lives. PADS is not one of those organizations.

So, what is really going on with the school at hillside and park? Just kidding!

GEM commented about lice on the other thread and I just want to clarify that head lice prefer clean heads so if filth is the problem, lice probably isn't the problem. However, once one person has it, it's relatively easy to spread. But the misnomer that head lice=filth is inaccurate.

My opinion? The PADS concept is a wonderful temporary solution for the temporarily homeless. It's a lousy solution for the chronically homeless.

I tried to put together a cohesive argument for the concept of permanent supportive housing for the chronic homeless, but then a quick Google search showed me that someone (quite eloquently) did it for me. So, here are my (albeit copied and pasted) thoughts:

http://www.everydaycitizen.com/2008/01/homelessness_shelters_vs_perma.html


The Difference Between Shelters and Supportive Housing

Different types of homeless people have different types of needs. Most people who become homeless are only without a home for a short period of time due to unforeseen events or financial circumstances. For these individuals, shelters and emergency supports are appropriate to help them get back on their feet quickly. Most citizens never notice these temporarily homeless individuals and families.

The homeless you see on the street corners are likely to be chronically homeless individuals. Supportive housing provides a permanent solution to this most visible and costly element of the homeless population.

Shelters that operate on an emergency basis are inappropriate for these individuals because their homelessness, and the problems that caused their homelessness, are chronic and long-term, not a temporary emergency.

Shelters

* Treat homelessness as a temporary problem that can be solved with temporary assistance.
* Are necessary and appropriate for individuals experiencing temporary homelessness in need of emergency assistance.
* Cannot effectively serve the emergency needs of temporarily homeless individuals and families if their capacity is being strained by chronically homeless individuals who have little hope of ever "landing back on their feet" without significant assistance.
* Are designed to serve a continual flow of different individuals, not the same individuals day after day, year after year.
* Rarely provide 24-hour operation, privacy, or secure space to store personal belongings—hallmarks of freedom that chronically homeless individuals need and want.
* Often impose strict rules on guests and alcohol; while understandable from a group safety perspective, these rules are more likely to alienate chronically homeless people with substance abuse problems than produce instant sobriety.

Supportive Housing Solutions

* Recognize that some homeless individuals will never return to mainstream society without permanent supportive services.
* Aid residents in securing unclaimed benefits for which they are eligible, such as social security, thereby offsetting the costs of the project.
* Provide flexible supportive services that maximize each resident’s ability to live independently without mandating participation in specific classes or treatments.
* Integrate caseworkers and programming to assist residents in dealing with and overcoming addiction, mental illness, chronic health problems, and physical disabilities; developing money management and other life skills; and securing and retaining gainful employment. Residents with jobs are asked to contribute a portion of their income as rent, just like other subsidized housing programs.
* Provide a long-term solution centered on individuals, not a pipeline. Supportive housing does not impose caps on the length of stay nor try to push residents towards moving out.
* Empower homeless individuals to make lasting changes in their lives by providing the ultimate symbol of dignity: a key to their own place. Building rules and policies are flexible and incorporate tenant input, further respecting that dignity.

agnes & mamaattorney-Well stated.

This is been a passionate debate for a number of us posters. Some like Bitterboy have taken to local officials and was met with "explanations" for inaction. As was stated by a number of us last year we need to push on enforcement of current laws regardless if they are thought by some to be unconstitutional.

I know that this statute has been posted before, but if this is what our police have to rely on, then I don't blame them for not acting on it. They tell someone to disperse and move on. Move on where? How far must they move? Move to the next bench? The next block? The next town? If they don't move on or disperse, they are in violation of the code. What happens then? Are they issued a ticket? Arrested? Is there a state statute on vagrancy? Is there some other section I should look to in determining the consequences for being in violation?

Looking at this, I just don't know what the police are going to do about loiterers. There's no bite to the statute.

I don't think the homeless want to hang around our downtown until their next meal. Really, I don't. I don't think they want to carry all of their earthly belongings around with them, and I don't think they say to themselves, I think I feel like going to Starbucks for awhile. I think they'd rather be out of the elements and out of the public spotlight. That is why I'm a supporter of permanent supportive housing in lieu of temporary shelters for chronic homeless.

6-2-2.6: VAGRANCY:

The following persons shall be deemed "vagrants":

(A) Abroad At Unusual Hours: One who wanders about the streets, alleys or other public ways or places, or who is found abroad at late or unusual hours in the night without any visible or lawful business and not giving a satisfactory account of himself; or

(B) Begging: One wandering abroad and begging, or who goes about from door to door of private homes or commercial business establishments or places himself in or upon any public way or public place to beg or receive alms for himself; or

(C) Loitering; Police Order To Disperse: It shall be unlawful for any person to loiter, loaf, wander, stand or remain idle, either alone or in consort with others, in a public place in such manner so as to:

1. Obstruct any public street, public highway, public sidewalk or any other public place or building by hindering or impeding or tend to hinder or impede the free and uninterrupted passage of vehicles, traffic or pedestrians.

2. Commit in or upon any public street, public highway, public sidewalk or any other public place or building any act or thing which is an obstruction or interference to the free and uninterrupted use of property or with any business lawfully conducted by anyone in or upon or facing or fronting on any such public street, public highway, public sidewalk or any other public place of buildings all of which prevents the free and uninterrupted ingress, egress and regress therein, thereon and thereto.

When any person causes or commits any of the conditions enumerated in this subsection, a police officer or any law enforcement officer shall order that person to stop causing or committing such conditions and to move on or disperse. Any person who fails or refuses to obey such orders shall be guilty of a violation of this subsection. (Ord. 1738, 9-13-1971)

(D) Unlawful Occupancy: One wandering abroad, and occupying, lodging or sleeping in any vacant or unoccupied barn, garage, shed, shop or other building or structure, or in any automobile, truck, railroad car, or other vehicle without owning the same or without permission of the owner or person entitled to the possession of the same, or sleeping in any vacant lot during the hours of darkness and not giving a satisfactory account of himself; or

(E) Declared Vagrant: One who by law is declared a vagrant, whether embraced in any of the foregoing classifications, or not. (M.C. 1965, Sec. 12.07)

Live near the Churches that sponsor PADS. I intentionally go out and experience the crowds from a first person.

I also think that the issue of increased homelessness is not directly associated with the proportional number of Churches in the area sponsoring PADS. I believe it to be a much larger issue than our little micro world of Glen Ellyn. My wife and I have experienced a financial strain in the last year as a result of increased fuel and food costs. We don't eat out as much. We have been fortunate. We have been able to absorb the additional financial burden. There are other people who are less fortunate eho do not have family and friends to see them through tough situations.

I have suffered from Major Depression so I know what is like to have a feeling of total worthlessness. Again, I had my wife and family to see me through the emotional depression. Yes, I was still highly functioning and maintained my job. But what if one did not have that support system? What if you could not afford to absorb these financial strains? Then how do you cope?

Now I feel there are multiple types of homessless. I feel there are natural "hobos" who enjoy living on edge of life and don't want to be attached to a particular place. They would rather just blow in the wind.

I think there are folks who are downtrodden and have lost hope. They need someone to show interest.

I think that a good portion of the people who are homeless in Glen Ellyn are mentally disadvantaged. And yes that is meant to be a soften sentence. For what ever reason they can not function as productive adults in their current state.

I am also a supporter of more permanent housing for homeless people. I think that is a charge of any good society. Unfortunately, there are folks that will never be anything more than what you seen in Glen Ellyn currently. However if you can provide them with a supportive environment and help them relearn some of the most basic social graces, I think that has real value. I am not a supporter of so called "free meals," but they do serve a good purpose for the short term.

The other issue that comes to play is that we can not force a homeless person into a supportive long term housing environment. One must develop trust with the homeless. And maybe this is where PADS could be an avenue to recommend and offer a longer term solution.

quote:

Originally posted by GEmom2:
This is Du Page PADS and it is based in Wheaton. Why does Glen Ellyn, which is half the size of Wheaton, sponsor twice the number of shelters at this time? It appears Glen Ellyn has taken on a disproportionate amount of responsibility and it shows.

Why does size matter? Maybe we have twice as many homeless? Maybe we care twice as much? Choosing to help others shouldn't be based on ratios...

quote:

Originally posted by GEM: If the churches really want to help these people . . .fine, but why don't they host them in their own homes. Why bring them to our CBD? Why make their good deeds a burden on the entire business community? Today is thursday. . . Its Ladies Night out downtown. . .It is also the Grace Luthern day to host pads.

unfortunately, people don't choose to be homeless only on wednesdays...

By BennyDog or his wife

quote:

The problem I'm having is the judgmental attitude of some of the people on this board. I'm a teacher in the area, and now I see why some of the kids in the area have absolutely no sympathy for people less fortunate then they are.

Glellyn is right, your only defense is to try and turn this into a morality play. Although calling someone a bigot is a common and quite often effective tactic, it doesn't work with me. This has nothing to do with looking different, color of skin and/or financial class. You refer to me as judgemental, yet it is you who has yet to support YOUR argument with any fact justifying why this is good for Glen Ellyn.

By Glellyn

quote:

About twenty people are standing in front of the church on the Forest side, standing in front of the dry cleaners, walking around and smoking their smokes... why?

Approximately 70% of PADS users are addicts, if not more. So, IMO it's not unfair to suggest that at least 14 of these 20 people chose this lifetyle. Being less fortunate than someone through random circumstance is one thing, but addiction is another. Addiction begins with drug/alcohol abuse when an individual makes a conscious choice to use drugs or alcohol. The vast majority of PADS members have choices, but elect to live their lifestyles via their own freewill. Yet, according to you, I am supposed to be compassionate and understanding based upon a choice they have made. You’re way out of line.

It's interesting that PADS offers a volunteer handbook with rules meant to ensure the safety and well being of its volunteers, probably for good reason. Such rules prohibit social contact with members outside of a PADS center. The rules prohibit volunteers from disclosing their own last names, addresses or phone numbers. Also, volunteers are not allowed to take guests into their homes. PADS, via their handbook and a signed disclaimer require its volunteers to aknowlegde that they are volunteering at their own risk. Why? BECAUSE PADS KNOWS THERE IS RISK. Yet, PADS does nothing to inform this community how to protect itself from these risks once their members are released from their centers and amass in our CBD. In fact, PADS wants you to believe the contrary and this is wrong.

What frustrates me a great deal is that PADS has this whole "WIPE OUR HANDS CLEAN ATTITUDE", most notably displayed after being less than forthcoming in repsonse to a little girl being raped by a PADS member. To promote the homeless as invisible while failing to inform the community of the types of people they import and the risks they pose is irresponsible and wrong. PADS does not deserve to do business in Glen Ellyn.

As adults, I believe most of us are able to assess when a situation could pose a potential threat, our children cannot.

P.S.

Per a handbook:

quote:

No smoking inside the building. Smoking is permitted outside in the presence of a volunteer.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: bitterboy,

quote:

Originally posted by Amy:
GEM commented about lice on the other thread and I just want to clarify that head lice prefer clean heads so if filth is the problem, lice probably isn't the problem. However, once one person has it, it's relatively easy to spread. But the misnomer that head lice=filth is inaccurate.

I'm not sure about the circle you made in your last comment. I said nothing about filth (this was your comment)

Your right, these people should have the right to do whatever the heck they want to in our town. Forget the fact that I choose to go to work and pay my taxes, forget the fact that I had to pay a small fortune to live in Glen Ellyn, forget the fact that I chose to move away from the city, the gangs the drugs and the other countless knuckle heads our society produces. Lets just give them the key to the city . . . the whole F%$#ing place. You know they have rights too!!

Well F%&* the bums. Their rights end where my begin! F$%# the Lutheran Church too and that stupid arsed progam that brings commerce to a halt on thursday night. The churches use of its property is having an impact on my rights to enjoy mine and my rights to a quiet, safe and secure community. If you invite the vagrants, then let them in. You (Grace Luthern) watch them. Don't use the rest of the town as your holding pen. It is very rude for the church to leave its guests at the doorstep, to interfere with their neighbors rights and to burden the police force with "babysitting" duty.

Would you like to see how these people live?

Next time you're at Soukups, go to the apartment entrance (just south of the store entrance ) Go upstairs to the first landing, there you will see where one of our resident bums lives. There is human waste in the hallways (#1 & #2), there is broken glass all over the hall. Cigarette burns decorate the hallway carpet. Trash is all about. Now should we talk about the smell? Don't want to go up there? Then walk over to the electrical department downstairs and take a big sniff. Ask Ryan what that smell is (He will tell you its a broken pipe.) I'm tellin ya its not the pipe, its the stuff that never got into the pipe and is laying in the hallway just above your head. Please shop again soon!

GEM, You may not have stated anything about filth in that specific statement and so I apologize for drawing that conclusion. However, based on what you've just stated and posted previously, as well as many other comments made by posters regarding the poor hygiene of some of the PADS folks, I drew the connection. I do think it's important to note that there certainly are many PADS patrons who do observe decent rules of hygiene. If all of them did, some of the concerns and issues surrounding PADS patrons wouldn't exist here in GE.

I think mamattorney has drawn an excellent distinction (whether someone else's words or not). Chronically homeless folks typically have larger issues to manage than just hitting a tough spot in their lives. And quite frankly, there is NO service in existence to assist those who need much more than PADS can provide given it's current set-up.

There was a question about ratio or proportion of PADS facilities vs. size of community and I do think it's a fair conclusion to draw. A smaller community has less capacity to absorb the negative impact that SOME of the PADS patrons create. A larger community has more resources to manage these impacts. If I believed that very many of the PADS patrons were Glen Ellynites, I'd be all over us providing MORE services. But the reality is that many of the homeless (temporary or chronically) come from all over the suburban area and some even come from the city.

GEM, if what you say about the apartment at Soukup's is true, the landlord has a responsibility to get these types of health violations documented and then evict a tenant (or tenants) OR enlist the police to help remove a person who does not belong there.

The problem with this whole issue is that there are a relatively small number of people really causing the problem and when we residents try to pin that down, there are just too many people that can point too many fingers in too many different directions.

I think we need to use the downtown cleanup as a platform to get out a unified message that makes our point but demonstrates sensitivity for the PADS patrons who do deserve our respect and empathy.

Tho I doubt I can say it as eloquently as GEM has , I think my greatest (sole?) problem with PADS and those who support it is that in doing what they personally consider to be a desirous thing, they impose negative externalities upon the community as a whole. In short, if you want to run such a program, I think it behooves you to bear all of the costs associated with such efforts, rather than shifting them onto the community at large.

Unless one of the programs goals is to make the homeless situation so public and unpleasant as to spur increased action by state or private parties. If that is the case, well, you should at least be up front about it. Admit you are making things worse with the hopes that others will be motivated to make them better.

Sorry if my beliefs do not comport with your ethics, but in my opinion my quality of life is not enhanced by encountering increasing the number of homeless I encounter in town. And why are my opinions and preferences less valid and entitled to less respect and protection than yours?