Is that group treading dangerously close to infringing on a company that is based in Illinois that uses the "good neighbor" words as part of its identity?

You should call the higher ups at your fine organization and check it out. It's never good when one infringes on trade names...look at what happened to Java Juice.

I am sure they have a whole intellectual property department that researches that to protect the brand......

Ok, back to the thread at hand, sorry for the jack....

I hope Mr. Clean doesn't make his way down Crescent.

I don't really get the whole traffic issue. We're talking 40 kids, right? And it's quite possible, even likely that at least some of those kids are siblings. So, let's say there will be 35 cars dropping off in the morning and 35 picking up in the afternoon (this is assuming that no one carpools too)...plus, I don't think there is a hard-and-fast arrival or end time (IOW, parents might drop off and pick up at somewhat staggered times). This is THAT big of a deal? I mean the public schools have hundreds of kids dropped off and picked up every day and it's all over in about 15-20 minutes. So, let's say it's about the same for the Montessori - everyone drops off or picks up within a 15-20 minute period....what, 35 cars? Come on - I just don't get the beef with this.

Their whole argument is that they did not buy into that. Unlike folks like me who knew what we were doing when we bought our houses next to a learning institution with 2,000+ students/teachers/staff.

They live next to a CHURCH! Churches have cars. Some churches have lots of cars every day. A church could do that with no special permits. Anytime a person buys a house with zoning that is anything but single family, they must realize things could change....again, I don't get it. Oh, and a bunch of the people complaining live on Park - PARK. That's a busy street. What's 35-40 more cars????

Church...especially a church that no one goes to = 1 per week. Montessori = 5 times per week.

And how is that church space zoned? I am too lazy to read back. That could be an interesting point against the "we didn't buy into this" argument.

Sorry, but I don't know too many churches that only have traffic on Sunday.

Amy:
Your assumptions are correct. Ron Repking stated at the pre-application hearing that there are an average of 40 kids and 22 cars (I think that was the number) each morning and afternoon -- confirming what you guessed, they do carpool. Let's do some math: 22 cars divided by 15 minutes equals... 1.47 cars per minute. Can someone speak to how many cars travel up and down Park Ave in the morning today, and how much of a change 1.47 more would represent?

Oh, but wait... we have to assume that most of the Diamante cars going to St Mark's already travel up/down Park Ave today. So the change is... um... none?

--

Clam:
The property is zoned R2, Residential. Churches and schools are "always" (? allowing for some exceptions I don't know about?) built in residential neighborhoods, because that's where people want them -- er, that is, that's how the collective citizenry has represented their will in ages-old zoning regulations.

A reasonable adult human, purchasing a home near a large lot with a church building on it, must be aware that said lot could be used extensively at any time by the resident church (whether that be 1 or 7 days per week); or by a gradeschool (e.g. St Petronille); or by a residential facility of certain size, etc. All of these are automatically allowed by R2 zoning. Diamante could potentially build a first-through-sixth grade school on that lot starting tomorrow, without asking anyone's permission (building permits assumed).

They're only before the planning commission now, because of the young age of their students, which technically classifies Diamante as a "day care" instead of a "school."

--

I see a bunch of green ribbons tied around trees on the church property. Are we welcoming Yoda home from Iraq?

quote:

Originally posted by Amy:
Sorry, but I don't know too many churches that only have traffic on Sunday.

This one must. Hence the fact that they cannot pay their bills. This is evident by the fact that they are being thrown out into the street. Sorry...did I say thrown into the street? I menat that the church is being sold. I think their are only 25 members, if I recall correctly. Most of them not as well-off as Fish from what I read. Who knows if they even have cars... My guess is that it isn't a vibrant 6-7 day a week business like a St. Pet's or a First Methodist, etc., etc., etc. My guess is that place sees the pastor's car on a daily basis...and that's about it.

quote:

Originally posted by Rhett:
Amy:
Your assumptions are correct. Ron Repking stated at the pre-application hearing that there are an average of 40 kids and 22 cars (I think that was the number) each morning and afternoon -- confirming what you guessed, they do carpool. Let's do some math: 22 cars divided by 15 minutes equals... 1.47 cars per minute. Can someone speak to how many cars travel up and down Park Ave in the morning today, and how much of a change 1.47 more would represent?

Oh, but wait... we have to assume that most of the Diamante cars going to St Mark's already travel up/down Park Ave today. So the change is... um... none?


--

I see a bunch of green ribbons tied around trees on the church property. Are we welcoming Yoda home from Iraq?

1) Don't bring logic to this discussion! That inhibits the ability for wealthy people to spend their money on printing up 4 x 10 banners for their front yards.

2) That last quote is awesome.

quote:

Originally posted by Clamato:

quote:

Originally posted by Amy:
Sorry, but I don't know too many churches that only have traffic on Sunday.

This one must. Hence the fact that they cannot pay their bills. This is evident by the fact that they are being thrown out into the street. Sorry...did I say thrown into the street? I menat that the church is being sold. I think their are only 25 members, if I recall correctly. Most of them not as well-off as Fish from what I read. Who knows if they even have cars... My guess is that it isn't a vibrant 6-7 day a week business like a St. Pet's or a First Methodist, etc., etc., etc. My guess is that place sees the pastor's car on a daily basis...and that's about it.

You know, I feel bad for the congregation - it's tough losing your church building but they will go on because we all know a church is not really defined by it's structure.

That said, the neighbors who live there might not be used to high traffic at that church right now, but at ANY point they could have had a surge in attendance - it's happened other places - and then what could the neighbors do? The bottom line is that this church has been there for a long time and whenever one moves into a home near such a building, things can change. I have a church on my block too - most people don't realize it. But, if they suddenly had 40 cars coming and going everyday (though it sounds like the Montessori won't even have that many), I wouldn't freak out. It's really NOT that big of a deal. Again, the owner could sell to a church that wants to use it as their permanent PADS facility...I think they really would prefer a bunch of cute little kids over possibly mentally ill adults who chain smoke and loiter around in clusters.

quote:

Originally posted by GE Fan:

quote:

Originally posted by Mamattorney:
I'm going to go out on a limb here and say Diamante Montessori can go ahead and change the address on their letterhead for next school year or whenever they believe the transition will take place.

Just my humble opinion.

Why do you say that?

Short answer - based on my experience of sitting on a zoning board of appeals for 5 years prior to moving to GE.

Long answer: This is prefaced with the caveat that I could not access GE's zoning regulations online yesterday. So, I went back to the materials from my old town (Streamwood - which had a ton of zoning issues going on because all the cornfields west of 59 were being developed while I lived there) just to confirm what I remembered about zoning districts.

Daycares and schools are not specifically permitted uses in any zoning district (again, GE could be different). They are special uses in all of the R zoning districts (that means anyone in an R(1), R(2), R(3) and R(4)). They are not usually detailed as specifically allowed special uses in any C zoning districts, but often C districts have catch all categories so that one could be allowed.

So, Diamante is going to have to obtain a special use permit no matter where it applies. The church that is sitting there had to obtain a special use permit for it to operate. Special use permits do not run with the land like variances. If the property changes hands, a new special use permit must be applied for.

The village deemed it appropriate to allow a special use permit to be awarded for those lots to allow the lots to be operated as a church. Churches mean increased traffic over a single family residence (or 2 or 3 residences - however many would fit). GE was clearly OK with this possibility. While I wasn't there when the special use permit was awarded, I can imagine the questions asked when the application was made. Do you anticipate having weddings, funerals, other activities that may take place in days other than Sunday? How could there be any answer other than yes? From a practical standpoint, perhaps this church did not realize this traffic, but certainly the possibility/probability of it taking place was accounted for. This, combined with the fact that the property abuts one of the more "main" roads of the town makes it even more likely to me that the permit would be awarded. It's not a dead end street that never saw any through traffic - even Hillside can't make that claim; lots of people (OK, maybe just me and the neighbors I inevitably follow to St. Pet's on Sunday mornings) who live on the East side of town (north of Roosevelt) take Hillside straight in to downtown regularly.

A preschool will generate little to no traffic 2 days a week, but steady traffic 5 days a week. 22 cars is what I'm hearing - likely covering 4 time periods: morning preschool drop off, morning preschool pick up, afternoon preschool drop off and afternoon preschool pick up. Perhaps the first and the last segments will have more cars than the others because older children may go all day. Also, preschool students don't always attend 5 days a week like full time daycare students. Diamante's website states there are 2 day, 3 day and 5 day programs. They wouldn't offer a 2 day program if parents did not register their children for it. Anyway, long story short, if the traffic study came back with a "little to no impact" conclusion, I would consider it a legitimate study.

I fully admit that I have never sat on the zoning board of GE, I have never attended a plan commission meeting and am, for several reasons none of which are indifference or lack of desire, not as involved in local politics as I used to be.

I see special uses as envisioned uses of space in a town, but uses which the town would like some say-so over how things are run. Otherwise, would the school be volunteering to spend money to put in some off street parking - maybe, maybe not. The special use permit application process is a way to make sure that the impact on the neighborhood made by the use is palatable and in keeping with the long range planning of the village. It's not meant to be an insurmountable hurdle for specifically outlined special uses.

Very well written.

FYI, Montessori programs are typically not structured the way regular schools are. Actually, if you go to Diamante Montessori's website, you can ready about their three programs and the start/stop times. If they have this many options with only 40 kids (and according to the other post declaring 22 cars), there might be ten cars at a time!

I find the neighborhood concern understandable but upon examination of all the facts I havea access to, the concern is overblown. The traffic problem does not seem significant.

Amy. . . Fan did you notice?

No.

Lil' help?

Sorry, I've been out of town since mid-day yesterday...what did I miss???

Well. . . . Yesterday and Today I drove up and down your street 22 times. . . and no one noticed the increase in traffic. Right? So you guys were right! 22 more cars by the school isn't going to amount to a hill of beans!