quote:

Originally posted by GE Fan:

I'm calling total bull **** on this excuse.

No excuse attempted, merely an explanation. And I thought (and still do) that the language of the stat I linked functioned primarily as a statement of public policy, rather than outlining any enforceable duty.

I am glad you know better than I what I was thinking when I posted that. I undoubtedly often post things that will make various people form unfavorable opinions of me, but I think it is a rare occasion indeed that I post disingenuously.

In countless cases, strictly following the law allows one to be a total jerk to those around them. While I generally attempt to make myself aware of the legalities, I do not rely on them as the sole guide to my behavior - or my opinions as to what constitutes societally desireable behavior.

quote:

Originally posted by IMJ:
#1, Joe Blow is walking on my sidewalk that has not been touched after a 3 inch snow fall. Joe falls, hurts himself and sues me..........Am I on the hook?

#2, Joe Blow is walking on my sidewalk, but this time, I have cleared the snow, but he slips on a icy spot that I missed.......Am I on the hook?

IMO:

Situation 1 - no
Situation 2 - would require that you were negligent in your snow removal. His injury itself is not sufficient to establish negligence.

But I willingly defer to the more learned counsellor.

quote:

Originally posted by IMJ:
Fan, there are two scenarios here that I need your litigation experience on.....#1, Joe Blow is walking on my sidewalk that has not been touched after a 3 inch snow fall. Joe falls, hurts himself and sues me..........Am I on the hook?

#2, Joe Blow is walking on my sidewalk, but this time, I have cleared the snow, but he slips on a icy spot that I missed.......Am I on the hook?

There is great debate in my household and my wife's family about this issue..I know what the insurance answer is, but what does an experienced litigator say?

1 - No.
2 - No. One cannot rely on a voluntarily assumed duty to create a duty and abrogate the unnatural accumulation rule. The only way you would be held liable, is if you shoveled your snow in such a way as to CREATE an unnatural accumulation of snow or ice, thus making your sidewalk more dangerous. However, that being said, the Plaintiff will still have to be able to prove the specific manner in which the unnatural accumulation came to be.

Yes, it's confusing. But, the threat of litigation for slips and falls should never be used a pretext for not shoveling....afterall, it wouldn't be neighborly.

One example, the shops on Crescent - they very well may/will/should get sued even if they do shovel. When they shovel, there is some residual ice/snow pack...that's inevitable. However, as you will see, the ice on the sidewalk does not come from the natural accumulation of snow and ice. It comes from the fact that they have awnings that hang over the sidewalk. When it rains or when the ice melts, the water runs down the awning and lands directly in the middle of the sidewalk, creating unnatural puddles. When it freezes, the puddles become ice...unnaturually accumulating ice.

There's the difference...in a nut shell.

I would like to chime in on the icy sidewalk discussion.
I have a neighbor (actually I should say we because the entire neighborhood agrees with me) who is a business owner in town and his wife works at FG. They do not ever shovel snow and hardly ever mow for that matter. She walks to work everyday using the sidewalks on their property which are very treacherous, so much so that I feel it is safer to walk in the street than on the sidewalks on their property.
I would think as a business owner one would want their property to "shine" let alone make sure their spouse has a safe commute to work.
I just don't get it!

We live very close to FG and I feel that it is my responsibility as a homeowner to provide clean sidewalks for the children and parents.

I'm done now, thanks for letting me vent.

Amy, I hear ya about the sidewalks to Hadley. I have been giving my daughter a ride just because it is not safe to walk to school.

quote:

Originally posted by Dinsdale:

quote:

Originally posted by IMJ:
#1, Joe Blow is walking on my sidewalk that has not been touched after a 3 inch snow fall. Joe falls, hurts himself and sues me..........Am I on the hook?

#2, Joe Blow is walking on my sidewalk, but this time, I have cleared the snow, but he slips on a icy spot that I missed.......Am I on the hook?

IMO:

Situation 1 - no
Situation 2 - would require that you were negligent in your snow removal. His injury itself is not sufficient to establish negligence.

But I willingly defer to the more learned counsellor.

I would take #2 a step further. I don't think simple negligence in removing the snow would create liability. I think you would have to prove something closer to intentional conduct in creating a hazardous condition.

Being a good neighbor, I do use the snow blower on not only my sidewalk but those of my two neighbors. One of my neighbors is elderly, and has asked that I stop doing it. I do it because there are people that walk to school in my neighborhood, and also walk for health reasons.

So when the old lady falls and says that I caused her to fall, you boys have my back....I will continue to snow blow......it is the right thing to do...

quote:

Originally posted by IMJ:
Being a good neighbor, I do use the snow blower on not only my sidewalk but those of my two neighbors. One of my neighbors is elderly, and has asked that I stop doing it. I do it because there are people that walk to school in my neighborhood, and also walk for health reasons.

So when the old lady falls and says that I caused her to fall, you boys have my back....I will continue to snow blow......it is the right thing to do...

$300 p/hr and I'll be a friend and help you out. Actually, since we are being positive today...I'll do it for $275 or $250.

Direct from your Glen Ellyn Newsletter for 2/2008:

Snowfall Reminders

In the winter months, residents should keep in mind some important reminders:

Wherever possible, please clear sidewalks for pedestrians.

Remove snow from around fire hydrants, so that they are visible in an emergency.

Shoveling snow into the street is prohibited, since it creates an unsafe condition for drivers (Hear, hear!!).

There is more, but read your own - page 5.

When shoveling your walk just remember

"No good deed goes unpunished!"

Think of the good cardio workout you get while shovelling also!

Heart attack?!

Yesterday I was finally able to go on a nice walk with the sun shining, but still had to maneuver several icy patches on sidewalks...and it seems to me that most of them were sidewalks directly in front of huge McMansions. Smaller, tidier houses almost always have clean walks. Huge new McMansions - that are actually lived in, not sitting empty - do not.

And that makes me even more uncharitably inclined toward the young trust fund families in this town. You spent over a million for your big *** ugly house. Buy a snowblower!!

Why not just buy some snow shoes with little metal teeth for the ice? That way you could even get around the CBD?!

quote:

Originally posted by scribbler:
Yesterday I was finally able to go on a nice walk with the sun shining, but still had to maneuver several icy patches on sidewalks...and it seems to me that most of them were sidewalks directly in front of huge McMansions. Smaller, tidier houses almost always have clean walks. Huge new McMansions - that are actually lived in, not sitting empty - do not.

And that makes me even more uncharitably inclined toward the young trust fund families in this town. You spent over a million for your big *** ugly house. Buy a snowblower!!

Why the anger? Especially on positive day....err....week.

And the trust fund comment? Wow. Ever think that a lot of these young people ACTUALLY made the money themselves? What is so hard to believe about that?

I think everyone is great.

quote:

Originally posted by scribbler:
And that makes me even more uncharitably inclined toward the young trust fund families in this town. You spent over a million for your big *** ugly house. Buy a snowblower!!

They probably do have snowblowers, they just don't use them because they just don't want jealous ranting lunatics gawking at their homes and families.

Who cares if they have a trust. What business is it of yours!

quote:

Originally posted by GE Fan:

And the trust fund comment? Wow. Ever think that a lot of these young people ACTUALLY made the money themselves? What is so hard to believe about that?

I think everyone is great.

Whhaaaaa!???!?! What are you talking about??!?! Not in the world of the GEBB! Only mediocrity is celebrated. We revel in failure and assail others when they are successful! Have you not been following the hundreds of other threads here????

There's no way a 35-yr-old should have a $1.5mill home unless it was given to them, and there's no way Honey should sell out of cupcakes unless it means they are driving towards impending doom!

quote:

Originally posted by glellyn:
There's no way a 35-yr-old should have a $1.5mill home unless it was given to them, and there's no way Honey should sell out of cupcakes unless it means they are driving towards impending doom!

I'm glad I live by rich people. Thank you for building your expensive house! Your investment in my community has just increased my property value. . . Thank you !

I would have thought that impending doom would mean those cupcakes wound up in the dumpster. . . .Who would have thought that converting your inventory to cash was such a bad thing. . . . .? Can't argue with you glellyn.

quote:

Originally posted by glellyn:


There's no way a 35-yr-old should have a $1.5mill home unless it was given to them,

Where have you been????

http://www.doshdosh.com/case-study-of-teenage-millionaire-ashley-qualls/

quote:

Originally posted by glellyn:

quote:

Originally posted by GE Fan:

And the trust fund comment? Wow. Ever think that a lot of these young people ACTUALLY made the money themselves? What is so hard to believe about that?

I think everyone is great.

Whhaaaaa!???!?! What are you talking about??!?! Not in the world of the GEBB! Only mediocrity is celebrated. We revel in failure and assail others when they are successful! Have you not been following the hundreds of other threads here????

There's no way a 35-yr-old should have a $1.5mill home unless it was given to them, and there's no way Honey should sell out of cupcakes unless it means they are driving towards impending doom!

Remember Fan-BE POSITIVE.

The FORCE will be with you-always.

quote:

Originally posted by Fish:
No and no.

Just pulled my plat to confirm what we all knew already - you are indeed correct, my friend. I humbly stand corrected and will NEVER doubt your wisdom again (well - at least not tonight and in this thread!)