thanks by the numbers! great story...

I have the best lawyer.

I believe Nika said John Doe, not John Doughboy.

quote:

thanks by the numbers! great story...

Times change. Methods change. But people? Not too much.

I love the fact that Abe [and Mary and Julia] felt free to "post negative comments about a political enemy" solely because they thought they could remain anonymous.

Same issue in this case, no?

quote:

Originally posted by ByTheNumbers:
The Lincoln-Shields Duel

Thanks BTN - I love this little slice of history (visit the Lincoln center in Springfield to learn more and see the swords).

But what did we learn from this? A 6’4” guy with a sword scares a 5’9” guy into giving up. I hope that defense is used the next time I have jury duty.

Thanks again, Nika.

As far as serving the defendant, if the court has the identity, couldn't the court serve him (or her)?

Fan: That's what I thought, that's why I was confused when Nika said that you can't

BTN: It's not the same issue in this case. Abe and his "crew" were posting things about a public figure. By being a figurehead, one exposes oneself to such things - that's common knowledge. By being a regular citizen, publicly posting about that person is not the same.

Actually, wasn't the posting about this lady's son? It's one thing to attack the lady, another to attack her family...

quote:

It's not the same issue in this case.

Not exactly the same but similar, with the crucial similarity being: Writing nasty stuff behind a cloak of [supposed] anonymity.

Additionally, both cases are highly political.

Methods change and I guess people change a bit too. In this modern case, the anonymous poster decided to rip on a politician's son.

I don't think Mary Todd could have even brought herself to that low point.

quote:

I love this little slice of history

Yes, me too. James Shields was quite the American character in his own right. He went on to become a Union general in the Civil War [as well as the Mexican-American War]. He was the only Union commander who got the better of Thomas "Stonewall" Jackson, at the Battle of Kernstown in 1862. A battle where Shields was also wounded.

I try to visualize Abe's reaction when he got this tiny sliver of good news in 1862 - a really, really bad year for the North.

Oh, THAT guy! Jimmy Shields! Sure I recall that fella from back in Ill-Annoy.

I love reading about Abe Lincoln and have been busy researching his circuit riding. I am digging to see if he ever had any contact with the founder of the Latter-Day Saints [Mormons] Joseph Smith out in Hancock County, in the late 1830s, early 1840s.

So far, no luck but I do know that Abe rode the circuit out to Carthage, Illinois to defend cases:

quote:

The first case to be tried in the new [Hancock County, Carthage, IL] courthouse was on April 25 of that year [1839]. William Fraim was charged with murder as a result of a drunken brawl. His attorney, a tall, lanky; not very handsome man from Springfield, IL by the name of Abraham Lincoln, lost the case and Fraim has been the only person legally executed by hanging in Hancock County.

Fraim and Neathammer were laborers on the steamship Hero, docked at Frederick along the Illinois River. The two men fought, and Fraim stabbed Neathammer in the chest, killing him instantly. The state's attorney indicted Fraim for murder in the Schuyler County Circuit Court. Fraim requested a change of venue because he believed that the citizens of Schuyler County were prejudiced against him. The court granted the change of venue to the Hancock County Circuit Court. Fraim retained Lincoln and pleaded not guilty. The jury found Fraim guilty of murder. Fraim motioned for an arrest of judgment, and filed a bill of exceptions stating that the prosecution did not reply to his plea. The court denied the motion and sentenced Fraim to hang. Fraim was executed one month later.

This is one of the very few murder cases A. Lincoln, attorney at law, ever took on.

Oh, and James Shields still holds the United States record for being elected to the U.S. Senate from the most states: Three - Illinois, Minnesota and Missouri.

quote:

Originally posted by DTM:
Actually, wasn't the posting about this lady's son? It's one thing to attack the lady, another to attack her family...

He was responding to the son's response to something that he posted about her. Essentially, this Hipcheck guy posted something about the lady, which caused the son to go online and "defend" the mom (I use the quotes because I don't know what he said), and that's when the guy said something about the son. For all we know, he didn't even know it was her son.

bio

quote:

Originally posted by ByTheNumbers:
James Shields still holds the United States record for being elected to the U.S. Senate from the most states: Three - Illinois, Minnesota and Missouri.

WOW BTN!!!
In the words of a famous 2nd banana, “I did not know that.”

Shields was also offered the governorship of the Oregon Territory but declined.

Just before the string of famous "Rebecca" letters appeared, the Whigs lost some hotly contested state elections to the Democrats, including, the governor's seat. A Democrat named Thomas Ford (*) defeated the Whig candidate.

In 1842, Abe was a Whig. I ponder on the notion that Abe [and pals, the editor of the Sangamo Journal was an ardent Whig, as were the she-devils, Mary and Julia - though they had no right to vote] was out for a bit of political revenge - in any way he could get it.

Not all that different than today's sniping at Obama et. al. by many disgruntled, defeated political opponents.

Shields was a good target but in fact, Lincoln and Shields were actually quite chummy. When Shields learned that his semi-good-bud: A. Lincoln, attorney-at-law, was the infamous "Rebecca", he was stunned. Shields, being of fiery Celtic temper, must have decided that his honor was more valuable than any past dealings he might have had with Lincoln.

I do enjoy reading about the return boat trip, post-non-duel, from Bloody Island. The anecdote about the log with a red-shirt over it causing women to faint and the shared laughter of Abe and Jimmy Shields is priceless.

(*) In June of 1844, Thomas Ford foolishly assured Joseph Smith [Mormon founder] that if Smith would surrender to state authorities and allow himself to be taken into custody, he would be "safe in the Carthage jail". Days later, a gang of Carthage Greys burst into the Carthage jail and shot Joe Smith and his brother Hyrum to death.

Even back then, it wasn't a wise idea to take an Ill-Annoy governor's word.

I believe the alleged defamatory comments were directed at her son in response to a "call out" by the son to meet in person to discuss his disparaging comments about his mom.

Is the son complicit in any way regarding the situation(provoking a flame war)? Shouldn't that be determined before his anonymity is lost?
Did the son acknowledge the fact that he was 15 years old and as such subject to a different set of rules governing internet comments? Would this possibly drive the ISP's and BB hosts to institute an 18 and over policy?

Rob, you just iterated why I haven't immediately gone to the side of coplete candidness on this one. Thank you for that.

We only know what the article wants us to know (or articles, in this case). There are far too many underlying questions to automatically say that the poster's identity should be revealed.

Clam. Ted's been busy - busy - busy!

Meaning what?

He's makin a list. . . . He's checkin it twice, You'll get kicked off the BB if you don't start playin real nice! . . . . . . . . . . .