Interesting Oprah show to air today regarding American high schools - link to website: http://www2.oprah.com/tows/pastshows/200604/tows_past_20060411.jhtml

I'm sure a lot of people around here think that some of the problems we see in "Dropout Nation" don't apply here. But consider this the bottom 25% of this years GW graduating class had a GPA of 1.5 With a 1 being an F. If you consider that West is supposed to be the best school of the four in D87 then you have to wonder how the other schools are doing. And how with all the supposed advantages we have here, so many kids are failing.

taxpayer, Glenbard South is considered "the best" school and has been for years. South consistently posts the highest scores in all test areas including ACT, SAT, and PSAE.

Another thought to consider. Is it the district's job to force kids to get an education? Most who fail, drop out etc., are in that situation because they put in zero effort. If a student wants to graduate all he has to do is show up to class and do the absolute minimum amount of work. It is not difficult. The district cannot stop kids from cutting classes or force them to do the minimum. Education is a two way street, it cannot be force fed, there must be effort by both parties.

But come on, didn't you read last weeks rag? The district wants to start new classes (exactly what I want my newfound tax increase is supposed to go toward) in criminal forensics. And the reasoning behind this marvelous idea? Well, you know that there is an increased interest in COLLEGE degrees in this field. So, am I to understand that if more kids are interested in taking college classes in a field that it is the schools mandate to supply these classes to it's students? Isn't that a College's responsibility?

Worry about getting everyone to read and write ENGLISH (don't even get me started on the immigration protests)and graduate before you start talking about Pi (irwin) in the Sky ideas.

I thought these new science classes were to give kids other options in order to fulfill the increased grad requirements for science. Most are semester classes. I think it is for those kids who would not do well in chem/phys. I also think they said that they have staff in place to teach all these courses. I think we're going to see the same in math because not all kids can go beyond alg/geo.

East has had Forensics and the Law for years. It is a cooperative class that qualifies for both a social studies and science credit. There are a multitude of Science courses available for those kids who cannot handle Chem, Physics etc. East has Anatomy and Physiology, Environmental, Basic Bio... I do not understand how offering more classes will cost more. I think existing teachers would teach them, parents pay for text books. My kid wanted to take Forensics but was told she would be bored silly, Bio AP for her. In order to graduate high school all a kid has to do is show up.

You maybe right, South maybe better than West but I doubt that the difference is large in either case. I agree that it takes only a minimal effort to graduate. What surprising is that even around here there are so many who don't. Certainly a majority of these kids are exposed to the importance of getting an education. And yet a surprising number don't or don't put forth the effort.


On a slightly different topic what does everyone think of U of I's plan to become more exclusive. Smaller classes, more expensive, more foreign and more out of state students. I was telling my daughter that unless she was in the top 10% of her class that even U of I could be a stretch.

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Originally posted by taxpayer:



On a slightly different topic what does everyone think of U of I's plan to become more exclusive. Smaller classes, more expensive, more foreign and more out of state students. I was telling my daughter that unless she was in the top 10% of her class that even U of I could be a stretch.

Makes me glad that I've purchased the College Illinois plans, frankly. But I'm not sure I dig the foreign/out of state students. This is a State school, after all. Sounds like they want to become U of Mich - Ann Arbor.

In regards to the top 10% for U of I, I'd guess it depends on which College you're applying to. Back in the day ('91), that was probably true for the colleges of Engineering and, to a lesser degree, Business. But I know there were other colleges that were cake to get into.

tapyer, you would be surprised at how little parental support there is for the high school students. At parent night this year most classes had somewhere between 5 to 7 parents in attendance. I still think you see the Glenbards as only your little slice of Glen Ellyn. East has 17% low income, 13% Hispanic and 7% African American. West has 9% low income, 10% Hispanic and 4.5% African American. North's statisitcs are close to Wests and Glenbard South has 4% low income, 4.7% Hispanic and 6.2% African American. Average ACT score at South is 24.0. West 22.3, North 21.0, and East is 20.6. East has the lowest graduation rate with 86.7% graduating and only 47% going on to a 4 year college. The other three schools graduate roughly 96%, with both West and South sending 62% on to a 4 year college. North sends 55% of its' graduates to a 4 year school. A statistically significant amount of Glenbard students come from low income/non English speaking families which ultimately affects test scores, graduation rates and college choices.

I think it is great that there is a state school that caters to the best and brightest. There are plenty of other options available to less gifted students. I do not agree with granting admission to a substantial number of out of state/foreign students.

I wonder about those statistics. Especially the graduation one and the four year college one. One thing you get from reading Dropout Nation is how badly skewed these numbers are. Kids who move are'nt kept track of. Kids who drop out but promise to get a GED are counted as graduates. The schools and the states are happy to keep reporting these phony numbers because it makes them look good. The going to college number probably comes from a simple survey question like "Do you plan on attending a four year college". A better question would be "Have you been accepted by a four year college" . That would dramatically change those numbers. You have to wnder what four year college is going to take someone with a D- average which is where the lowest 25% of this years West class is.

These numbers came from the state report card. I believe they are fairly accurate. Believe it or not there are colleges for everyone. Go to collegedata.com and put in a D average, you will be surprised at how many schools would accept you. My question is what parent would pay for a 4 year school in that situation? I seriously doubt that the kids with a D average are the ones going to 4 year schools. Since 62% is the largest percentage to attend a 4 year school it makes sense to take out the bottom 25%. I know the Glenbards send out a survey six months after graduation in order to follow up on recent grads, could someone lie? Absolutely. Taxpayer, I thought I was cynical but you've got me beat by a long shot. I do not believe it is the district's responsibility to make sure kids go to class and graduate. I am also positive that the kids getting a D- average are putting forth little to no effort. Is that the district's/teacher's fault? As much as Glenbard's lack of fiscal responsibility upsets me I do believe my kids have gotten an excellent education. It is impossible to force 9,000 kids to go to class everyday and get a C average. I believe the 25% at the bottom of the class have only themselves to blame, my sixth year senior included. How about some personal responsibility?

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Originally posted by middlein87:

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Originally posted by taxpayer:
On a slightly different topic what does everyone think of U of I's plan to become more exclusive. Smaller classes, more expensive, more foreign and more out of state students. I was telling my daughter that unless she was in the top 10% of her class that even U of I could be a stretch.

In regards to the top 10% for U of I, I'd guess it depends on which College you're applying to. Back in the day ('91), that was probably true for the colleges of Engineering and, to a lesser degree, Business. But I know there were other colleges that were cake to get into.

I can verify that to be admitted to the U of I in Engineering, one should probably be in the top 5% of their class with AT LEAST a 30 ACT and probably more like a 32-33. Business was slightly less competitive but this year, it is just as difficult or even more than Engineering. Liberal Arts and Sciences (LAS) is probably only possible for students in the top 15% of their class with a 28ACT or higher. Aviation is somewhat less competitive as is Agriculture and Fine and Applied Arts. Education and Applied Life Studies fall somewhere in between LAS and Agriculture. IT's just plain tough. I haven't received a summary report from U of I yet this year but I know their apps are up. I would estimate that they probably received at least 24,000 apps and admitted possibly 10,000. That's below 50% admission rate so it is definitely stepping up.

I have not heard anything about new initiatives for out-of-state or international students. That rumor goes around every year and every year they demonstrate that it is not true...but, I guess we never know.

By the way, Michigan has really cracked down on out-of-state admissions so very few kids will get in there from out of state compared to 5 or 6 years ago.

Just thought I'd share... I should add that these admission requirements are for schools like the Glenbards, Elmhurst, etc...solid, good college prep, middle to upper class (on the whole).

Yeah I've read that in the Trib that, that is U of I's plan. I can see Michigan cutting back since the Auto Industry is having such a tough time.

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I can verify that to be admitted to the U of I in Engineering, one should probably be in the top 5% of their class with AT LEAST a 30 ACT and probably more like a 32-33. Business was slightly less competitive but this year, it is just as difficult or even more than Engineering. Liberal Arts and Sciences (LAS) is probably only possible for students in the top 15% of their class with a 28ACT or higher. Aviation is somewhat less competitive as is Agriculture and Fine and Applied Arts. Education and Applied Life Studies fall somewhere in between LAS and Agriculture. IT's just plain tough. I haven't received a summary report from U of I yet this year but I know their apps are up. I would estimate that they probably received at least 24,000 apps and admitted possibly 10,000. That's below 50% admission rate so it is definitely stepping up.

I have a friend who'se daughter's grades were'nt quit good enough to get in some of the better colleges at U of I so she applied to the Agriculture school got in kept her grades up and transferred to another school. Of course the downside of that is you risk spending four years working with livestock.

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Absolutely. Taxpayer, I thought I was cynical but you've got me beat by a long shot. I do not believe it is the district's responsibility to make sure kids go to class and graduate. I am also positive that the kids getting a D- average are putting forth little to no effort. Is that the district's/teacher's fault? As much as Glenbard's lack of fiscal responsibility upsets me I do believe my kids have gotten an excellent education. It is impossible to force 9,000 kids to go to class everyday and get a C average. I believe the 25% at the bottom of the class have only themselves to blame, my sixth year senior included. How about some personal responsibility?

I'm not pointing fingers at the low GPA of the lowest 25% at GW. I'm just really amazed that it's so low. Can you even graduate with .5 GPA. I wonder if a lot of those are from kids who just stopped attending. I'm not being cynical about the graduation rates, I'm restating what other researchers have documented that graduation rates in this country are highly inflated. Again people lie, exaggerate on these surveys. So you really can't go by face value.

I guarantee that the kids in the bottom 25% "just stopped attending". If teachers see a kid show up for class the child will pass with a C. I know this from experience with my 6th year senior. The question becomes at what point does the school district stop being a babysitter, you cannot force a teenager to attend class. The best technology investment the district could make is the system that allows parents to go online and check attendance and grades. East instituted a program this year that if a student misses three days of class, excused or not, the teacher must make contact with the parent. If the proper technology were put in place it would free up the teachers and put the responsibility squarely on the shoulders of the parents/students.

I thought no child left behind stopped the free passes? sure they can pass kids thru classes, but when they take those mandated exams and flunk them, the gov't will know something is up...

But the feds don't do anything for THAT kid, they just put the school on academic warning - IF their numbers don't meet AYP.

A couple of statements are strange...UIS has been a four year university for several years yet it talks about shifting to a four-year university. Wierd!

I agree that if the university is actually looking to increase the out of state and international students, they will have a lot of angry folks! I would be disappointed to see that happen only because there are already so many kids that want to go there but they can't get in - even though they are entirely capable of succeeding academically.

You have to wonder what the purpose of all of this is. It's like that joke about having a university the football team can be proud of. I think now they want a student body the professors can be proud of. If fewer and fewer people stop having access to a quality education then support for education in this country will decline. It's pretty obvious that those who are able to get a college degree are going to be more successful than those that don't. But if colleges/universities start limiting access, then they become the gatekeepers as to who has a good life in this country and those who don't. If the have not's outnumber the haves then the people who run higher education could find themselves being very unpopular .

"9.5% increase" ?! 22% increase! Outrageous!!! I am writing a letter!!

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Originally posted by Gus:
Out of state and foreign students pay higher tuitions as compared to kids from within the state. It's all about revenue.

I'm not so sure it's all about revenue. I think that they want to increase the geographical reach of U of I. Note that their goals isn't just to be "the best" but they also want to be "recognized as The Best". That means that they want their reputation/buzz to be talked about in more places than the Midwest. So they probably figure on first increasing their prestige in those US News rankings, etc., and then opening up more slots from kids from around the country. Then those kids become alumns and go back to the areas they came from and spread the gospel. It's a long term process, to be sure.

But I know that Stanford, the Ivy's, and, at least Notre Dame, all take geographics into account during acceptance deliberations so that they spread their name country wide. ND has dissapointed a lot of die-hard ND fans from the Chicago area that way. You wind up with having to have better credentials to get into ND if you're from Chicago than if you're from Texas.

But.....there's still the question as to wheter a STATE school should operate that way.