If any of your kids have had Sophomore Contemporary World History Honors (mine have had Mrs. Stone, one of the very best teachers at West) you should be aware that this class (which is the only class that teaches 20th and 21st century history) is effectively being killed by the D87 administration. Instead of this wonderful class (which really PREPARES kids for further AP social studies work as juniors and seniors) sophomores will now have to take European history AP and/or "Human Geography AP" (whatever THAT is.) Contemp. His. Honors will still be offered, but as an elective. As well, D87 is adding a civics requirement. Civics will be taken as a sophomore for one semester. BUT if you want you can take civics as a jr. or senior as AP government. BUT if you want your kid to take Contemp. Hist honors, but NOT take Eur.or Human GeographyAP as a sophomore, they will not be allowed to take AP government.
Got that?
This is being done to offer a "more rigorous" AP course load to sophomores. (Not all of whom, i might add, are really ready for an AP course.) Currently, over 300 kids are enrolled in contemp honors (at West alone? not quite sure what i was told.)
I think this is being done to offer more AP courses, and raise the D87 rankings on some list or another. Meanwhile, one of the best courses this district offers is being killed.
BTW: D87 offers AP courses in : Psych., Eur. Hist. US hist., Amer. Govt. and Macro Economics.
FIVE AP classes in one department alone. Isn't that really enough?
this is just changes in the Social Studies curriculum.
has anyone else heard about other departments they may be messing with?
what i don't get is: why mess with success? I believe that (at west anyway) the social studies department has a very good track record with AP success. I think it's because of good preparation in fresh/soph honors classes.
If anyone else is not happy about this please consider coming to the board meeting next monday night. the board rules call for the BOARD to approve major curriculum changes, and these are big ones.

Sounds like one of those changes where you'll be provided what is supposed to be a "reason", that sure doesn't seem to reflect your or your kids' interests.

With my kids in college, we are more than ever convinced of the great education they got at West. But I am very happy to be done with the sort of thing you describe. Seems to fix something that wasn't broken, and make quite complex something that doesn't need to be so.

All of my kids entered college with considerable AP and other credit - one intends to finish in 3 years and the other is getting a minor. Don't think any of the 3 took AP classes as a sophomore, nor do I believe enough kids NEED to such that restructuring of this type was necessary.

you ARE lucky, dinsdale, to be out of this fun and games.
"inspire, empower, succeed..." is the d87 motto. so why mess with success? Posturing? empire building? change just because it looks good?
while gus may talk about the rankings of the D87 schools, i feel my kids are exposed to a large cross section of our american society. if i needed higher rankings (which are only as good as the paper they're written on) i'd have moved to naperville, hinsdale, or, shoot, new trier years ago. this plan messes with a curriculum which has worked, and worked well.
the honors/AP programs are NOT the problem with D87 rankings. the "problem" lies with underperforming minority groups. getting rid of an excellent class will not fix this.
imagine, in the world we live in, that there will be NO 20th or 21st century history class taught at D87. "human geography." that will go in the wasted credits file at most major universities.
please come to the board meeting next monday.

and for those of you who werent around...i recall a board meeting in spring 05 right after the failed 70M ref. the board had threatened to cut the class day (which DID happen for the 05-06 school year, rectified by a MUCH smaller ref. in the fall of 05) AND cut the guts out of the sports and extracurricular program. parents demanded, and won, the "right" to pay to play. thus, our still-standing fees for all sports and extra curriculars, and a user fee for drivers ed which reflects the real cost of driver ed. funny how they had to listen to several HUNDRED angry parents.
the superintendent at that time high-tailed it the next year. i believe he is now eligible for pensions from wisconsin, illinois, and now indiana.
D87 doesnt just educate students. they create cynical, wary parents as well.

Oh man - you don't want to get me started on that era!

I remember how disappointed I was at the results of the 04 national elections, despite being more involved than I had previously. So I decided to become more informed about and active in local matters, where I thought I might be able to have SOME impact. I well recall the board's refusal to do so much as provide an explanation of why they were asking for x amount of dollars. In fact, the majority of the board acted surprised and almost insulted that they would even be asked for such a thing.

Since then I've narrowed my efforts, trying to have SOME influence within the walls of my home. I'm having some success, as ONE of my dogs seems to be considering listening to me part of the time!

I worked HARD to become this apathetic!

i love my dog.

Hate to say this but "join the crowd" because every school is looking to ramp up rigor and the only national standard for rigor is AP (or IB, but not a lot of schools around her offer IB courses).

In social studies, my school offers:
AP European History
AP US History
AP American Government
AP Macroeconomics
AP Microeconomics
AP Psychology

The only AP sophomores can take is AP Euro and that class is made up mostly of sophomores. I think that's pretty standard practice.

Anyway, continue as you were....I'm not saying I agree with the changes, or that I disagree with the changes - just letting you know what seems typical.

You know those surveys that grade high schools and how they rank. A large percentage of that comes from how many AP classes they offer, how many students take them and how many pass.

my understanding (based on results a few years ago) is that the SS department at west has a very good track record for 4's and 5's in social studies (which would mean AP credit granted by most major universities.) my beef is with vitually eliminating a wonderful sophomore PREP class.
without this class (contemp. honors for sophomores) i believe that many jrs and srs. will not be as well prepared for jr/sr. AP.
even more importantly: the board rules call for BOARD approval for major curriculum changes. doing this without board approval? also, if you WANT your kid to take contemp, and NOT ap as a sophomore, they are taking away your ability to do so, since your kid won't be able to take AP gov. (and i ask you, what does "human geography" or ap eur. history have to do with AP govt?)
like the new "no drop" policy...they (admin.) always know better than parents. really?

My kids aren't at the high school level yet (thank GOD, based on some of what I've read from you whose are!), but I'm already getting disgusted with all of this competition stuff.

Is it REALLY more important for a school to increase its rankings on a list, or for more of its students to be ready for (and successful in) life? We (both parents AND schools) teach our children that they can be anything they want to be and that their differences are what makes them individuals....yet we completely contradict that by trying to fit them all into these molds.

At high school age, these kids are dealing with more than enough hypocrisy (or at least the perception thereof) and confusion about what will work for them. Why must we add to it?

These kids are never going to be able to experience life and "finding themselves" because they're al going to be too busy trying to fit into what the schools are telling them they should be. Why can't they just let them be themselves? As it is, they don't have enough say in what they're studying (IMO a primary reason for failures where there shouldn't be) and they're already struggling with trying to be in control of themselves and their lives socially. Adding academics to the list of things they only appear to have a say in just increases the issues with it.

hey, thanks!
come to the board meeting! you've hit the nail on the head. this is about looking good on lists, not preparing children to "inspire, , empower, suceed." (D87 motto.)

Perhaps that's true.

But it is also possible that the district has decided that AP courses would be beneficial for kids in the college admission process. Again, AP curriculum is a known entity worldwide. So, when a college sees AP on the transcript, they have a better idea what that means than just another "honors" course at a school. Afterall, honors courses at Glenbard West may be a totally different animal than honors courses at....I don't know, pick a small, rural school, or urban school. Then, again maybe the honors courses at those schools are a lot alike. There is no way of really knowing. With AP, they know what it is. It's recognized.

Again, I'm not necessarily endorsing the move to AP (as if that would matter anyway) but I'm willing to consider that there might be some respectable reasons why they are considering these changes.

I'm sure that the teacher you've mentioned is wonderful but the quality of the curriculum for a course shouldn't be dependent on an individual teacher for it's quality. YES, the delivery of the curriculum will be dependent on that wonderful, quality teacher. But that same wonderful, quality teacher could also deliver the AP curriculum effectively and well.

I appreciate what Amy just said.

I went to one of those small rural schools. Academically, we were ranked more towards the bottom in the state. (Our FFA and Vocational classes rocked...#1 in Welding.)

Somehow, I got in to a very competitive college that required all freshmen to take a "Tutorial". The purpose was to even us all out on what the college expected in terms of classroom basics: Papers, Research, Study Habits, etc.

Many of my classmates had taken AP courses in HS. They were not offered at my HS. It's my feeling that the AP students had a leg up over me when they hit college.

Unnecessary, repetitive and redundant quote removed. --Ted E.

I thought I had heard thatthere was an issue regarding the proliferation of AP courses - that the more "esoteric" courses were getting away from what colleges understood and were willing to grant credit for. Am I misremembering, or as this been successfully addressed?

I find AP curious - and not inherently preferable, becase in at least some instances the AP designation means there will be greater emphasis in teaching to succeed on the test, instead of acquiring the greatest long-lasting familiarity with the subject matter - which might be a somewhat different thing.

Checked, and none of my kids took AP as a sophomore. All graduated in the top 10% at West, and all are on track to complete their college programs in the allotted time or less (one will complete a 5-year program in 4.5). So that's my 3 data points as to the benefit/necessity of offering AP to HS sophomores.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Ted E.,

quote:

Originally posted by howdy60137:
hey, thanks!
come to the board meeting! (D87 motto.)

I would Howdy, but like I said, mine aren't at that age yet. I don't know how seriously my opinions would be considered if I don't even have students in that district atm.

Amy, you do have a point. However, if a student appreciates the original class's subject matter moreso than that of the newly offered AP class, said student is going to perform better in the original class. Achieving an A in a "regular" class is going to look far better on a transcript than achieving a C in an AP class. Not all students are cut out for AP and taking away from the regular-level curriculum to increase the AP classes available may benefit those AP students, but it's only going to harm those regular students.

Din: something is ringing a bell for me about the AP discrepancies as well, though I can't recall what....maybe we should research this.

while i agree, amy, that AP is about the only level measure we have in the united states (vs. europe, with all the standardized (and in my opinion, very restrictive) admissions standards, i also agree with dinsdale...do we have to have AP for sophomores? is this going to really help?
what if they're not ready, and thanks to the new no drop policy they're stuck?
today US News and World report has listed their top 100 high schools...and the only 3 from the entire chicago region are chicago magnet schools (northside prep, whitney young, cant remember the 3rd.) if this curriculum change is being done to help our standings forget it...clearly magnet is the only way to go to get to the top. IMHO, magnet schools shouldnt be ranked. same admissions policy as private schools, really.

finally, what gets to me is that this seems to be one more way D87 is adding restrictions, not basing course choice on the student's readiness and the parent's desires. witness: the new gym rules passed this year. gym is now part of the GPA? NO waivers for jrs. or seniors? no waviers (my understanding, not sure about this) if the kid is in an non-school athletic persuit (ie, speed skating, equesteran(Sp!), swimming, anything else not offered thru the school) no waivers if a jr/sr wants to take AP and choir or band. witness: the new no drop policy. sort of off-topic, i know, but part of the same D87 issues.

Howdy, you're absolutely right....i too feel there is no reason, save for uber-competitive parents and kids needing to constantly raise the bar, for a sophomore to take AP classes.

I agree too that the whole PE thing has gotten ridiculous. We have the relatively new department head Neil Duncan to thank for the changes. Why the board went along with it, I have no idea.

I agree that kids need PE, but what does that have to do with intellect? Nothing. It should have absolutely NO effect on a student's GPA. I mean, Illinois students who go out of state for college are going to be placing their GPAs against students from states who don't even HAVE PE programs! So, those kids are going to be granted admission over ours simply because they're more athletic??

even if you dont want to speak, agnes...i'd love to see you there monday!
it does boggle the mind that gym gpa is counted. which is really stupid, since i'm sure that most colleges immediately take it out and recalc. the gpa...they must LOVE d87....

yeah, and who is Neil duncan that he gets to dictate policy?
pe IS important...but so is fixing the diet in the cafeteria and at home...the real key to the obesity crisis...but i digress...must be friday night....