I think the kid who stole the test and cashed in on distributing it should be expelled. However, the punishment for the kids who bought or received the answers seems sufficient. I absolutely don't condone cheating and consider myself to be someone of high moral character. I never cheated on a test in high school, graduated valedictorian, and went on to a very competitive university. However, there was a time in college that someone offered me a copy of a final for advanced statistics. I declined, but I was very tempted. I remember the pressure I was feeling about the exam and considered changing my mind several times the week prior to the test. It seemed so easy...just this once. I sweated it out and studied for the test the old-fashioned way, but boy was I tempted to call my friend. I was 21. What would I have done if I was 16? I would hope the same thing...but I'm not positive. With the pressure these kids are under today, especially in GE, I'm sure it was tempting to many. I would hope my daughter, an eighth grader, would walk away and not be tempted. But even though we think we have instilled the highest of morals in our children, we sometimes do things out of character when under pressure and faced with temptation. I guess I agree with Fan. I would hate to see these kids excessively punished for a stupid mistake.
This message has been edited. Last edited by: Mardie,
After reading all these posts it make me sad to see that everyone involved was taking the easy way out. The kid selling last year’s test wants to make a fast buck. The kids with the tests taking the easy way out to get a good grade. The teachers taking the easy way out by recycling last year’s final to give to the kids.
Heck all the teacher had to do was shuffle the questions around on this year’s test and the students would have had all the correct answers, but to the wrong questions!
Even though the kids were wrong for cheating on the test, it still bugs the crap out of me that I pay all these tax dollars for teachers to do, in my view, a mediocre job. If the tests are recycled, does it mean that the entire class is recycled year after year? If that is the way D87 teaches why don’t we just pay the teacher for 1 years work and video tape the class and play the reruns year after year. We can get someone from a temp agency to make copies of the handouts and tests a lot cheaper than having a top paid teacher regurgitate the exact same thing over and over, year after year. A lot of colleges are doing just that type of web based teaching to maximize profits. It sure would be a cost effective way to cut the faculty and save a ton of money.
What does sticking it on every one of these kid's records accomplish? While we're at it then, we should put drinking, fighting, smoking and loitering on all of their records too. Call me crazy as it appears that I am alone in this one, I would rather have my 16 year-old get picked for improperly having the right answers to an AP exam (assuming my kid wasn't the one that committed theft by stealing the exam) than having my kid get picked for drinking, smoking pot or the vast majority of other teen-aged ills that most on here apparently seem to prefer.
Clam - screw the ethicist, the game this question is better suited for is "Would You Rather?"
Fan, I am with you on this one. There should be consequences for those who tried to cheat. If averaging a zero into there existing grade means they fail, so be it. Let them live with the result of the attempt. Most of them, for the rest of their lives, when they think about high school math, will remember this with embarrassment. I do not think they need it stamped into their high school transcript. (The one who stole the test is another issue. I don't know what a fair punishment should be for him.)
I think this event should be an eyeopener to all parents who pressure their children to be perfect little Stepford children.
re: Fan's article "As children got older, they were less likely to view the cheating behaviors as okay, with the exception of second graders, whose overall percentage was higher than any other grade at both schools."
I always knew you had to really watch those rotten second graders.
When I was at Long Beach State, there was an English proficiency requirement to graduate. Huge test on a Saturday for all potential graduates.
No fewer than three people offered me money to take the test for them. All speaking with thick accents. The test was the equivalent of high school grammar. I then found out that the school had sent in people to try to bribe graduates and weed out the cheaters.
If you want an interesting read, look up Freakonomics for an analysis of the Chicago high school cheating scandal. The way the patterns were discovered is fascinating, even for statistics challenged people like me.
As your kids get older, you begin to recall all of the foolish, dangerous, and illegal activities you "got away" with in high school and college. I get a little woozy when I consider my good fortune/dumb luck that none of these things went on my "permanent record." When I start to get righteous about current teens' actions, my husband reminds me that kids today really aren't that different than we were. They usually deserve a second chance.
I hope the kids who cheated - those who were caught and those who did get away with it - will learn from this. The next time they may not get away with a zero on an exam and the disdain from their peers that they were willing to unfairly jump ahead of their more honest classmates. There are consequences for our actions, it is a good lesson for privileged teens to learn.
I just saw this thread this morning; it really improved my otherwise tedious day.
My kids are no where near high school age, but I'm not that old to have forgotten what goes on in high school. A lot of kids cheat in high school - our valedictorian was the biggest cheater out there. He was a nervous wreck if he didn't know the answers to all of the tests/quizzes in advance. Remember there are two forms of cheating - and a lot of people I know fell into the "I don't cover my paper" kind of cheating; giving away info is cheating, too. If you know the information - share the love.
I remember running into a classmate of mine who went to a non top tier college on an athletic scholarship (I think we were sophomores), I said how's school going? He said "It's great, I'm one of the smartest ones there - to think, this time around - people are cheating off ME!"
That about says it all.
Posts: 448 | Location: Glen Ellyn, IL | Registered: February 26, 2007
My daughter took the test in question on Monday during the first testing period. She reported that it was beastly and that 8 kids left the room crying. Since she didn't feel like crying, she felt that with the curve, she would probably do pretty well. When I had to tell her Wednesday night that she needed to decide whether or not to retake the test on Thursday, she was visibly deflated. Her books were in school, the index card of formulas that they are allowed to take into the test with them was collected at the end of the test and recreating it would be very time consuming and was not something that she was mentally up for after 3 days of little sleep. She decided to not retake the test and knew that she would have to settle for her 1st and 2nd quarter average of an 88.
I think that the kids who had the problems programmed into their calculators are getting off too easily. A zero on the final might not have an effect on their final semester grade if they start out high enough. The kids in all honors have become ridiculously obsessed with their grades and most know before the final how low they can score to maintain their current grade and how high they need to score to bump up. Powerschool is a great thing, but some of these kids log onto it several times a day school to see what their gpa is vs. an hour ago.
I think these kids should not only receive a zero on the final but should have something like say, another 100 points deducted as well. The only thing that might actually get their attention would be to go from a 5 to a 3, or a 4 to a 2. Otherwise, the risk just isn't great enough and they'll probably consider doing it again.
Originally posted by agnes: My daughter took the test in question on Monday during the first testing period. She reported that it was beastly and that 8 kids left the room crying. Since she didn't feel like crying, she felt that with the curve, she would probably do pretty well. When I had to tell her Wednesday night that she needed to decide whether or not to retake the test on Thursday, she was visibly deflated. Her books were in school, the index card of formulas that they are allowed to take into the test with them was collected at the end of the test and recreating it would be very time consuming and was not something that she was mentally up for after 3 days of little sleep. She decided to not retake the test and knew that she would have to settle for her 1st and 2nd quarter average of an 88.
I think that the kids who had the problems programmed into their calculators are getting off too easily. A zero on the final might not have an effect on their final semester grade if they start out high enough. The kids in all honors have become ridiculously obsessed with their grades and most know before the final how low they can score to maintain their current grade and how high they need to score to bump up. Powerschool is a great thing, but some of these kids log onto it several times a day school to see what their gpa is vs. an hour ago.
I think these kids should not only receive a zero on the final but should have something like say, another 100 points deducted as well. The only thing that might actually get their attention would be to go from a 5 to a 3, or a 4 to a 2. Otherwise, the risk just isn't great enough and they'll probably consider doing it again.
Sorry to agree with Agnes, GE Fan...but after our conversation yesterday, it can't be much of a surprise. The whole concept of coddling cheaters by making sure nothing happens to them in the future...at the expense of honest, HARD WORKING kids, really makes me ill.
Couple questions thoughts. Why do we have/need finals at the HS level it seem that the kids are tested enough throughout the year so why add this additional testing .Who makes writes the scantron tests are they made by the textbook publishers.
ok,life is not fair. that being said, i say throw the book at those caught cheating. if not punished now they'll keep it up (and be rewarded for it) their whole lives.
I wonder how many cheaters (caught and others not caught) will drop to non-honors pre-calculus. Even they clearly believe they can't cut it without shortcuts. If they had any shame, they wouldn't want to face that teacher for a new semester.
When applying to colleges, being in the top 5-10% can mean a big difference in terms of acceptance, honors programs, and $. The top 5% at W is about 25-30 kids. Most of those kids get mostly if not all As, and take several if not all available honors and AP classes.
If more than a couple of kids' grades drop as a result of this, it could really shake things up at the top of the class for when these kids apply to colleges next fall.
Personally, I think they should fail the semester. If you start taking the easy path in high school, what’s to stop you from taking the easy road in college and on into life. Learn those cheating skills early, so changing a number or two on the company books can be done with little or no guilt.
We asked our freshman not to take any honors classes this year. We wanted her to enjoy Glenbard and have a nice balance between work and fun. MRS. Perplexed and I are in total agreement that we would rather have a happy, well-balanced, successful child than a stressed out high performer.
I’m sure we have probably set her on a course to ::gasp:: a state school. She will probably hate us for not helping her break the pattern of state university attendance that is so prevalent in her family.
Originally posted by perplexed: ...we would rather have a happy, well-balanced, successful child than a stressed out high performer.
It's nice to know that Mr. Goes A Long Way and I aren't the only ones who feel this way.
I remember hearing that cheaters never prosper. I don't think that's the case anymore and it's a shame. There are news stories all the time about people who cheat and lie and get away with it.
And let me pose this question: What happens to honest students when teachers grade on a curve? It matters to everyone when even one person cheats.
two words.... jeffrey skilling. one of the rare cases where a cheater(or whatever you want to call him) got caught. but look at what was left in his wake.
way to go, perplexed! and let's see...how many successful graduates of state schools do you know? i personally know many...especially from NIU for example. it's not necessarily where you go, it's what you do with yourself.
