In this thread clam let us know that starting this year at West PE grades will be included in calculating GPA. Wondered what others might think of that. My youngest graduated last spring, so I have no dog in this fight.

My first reaction was that it would be okay so long as PE grades were awarded on effort, rather than ability. And I questioned whether I would trust the PE teachers I have known to fairly acknowledge effort, instead of favoring the athletically talented.

But then I realized that that was inconsistent with the way I felt academic classes should be graded. Your effort should only go so far if you don't get the correct answer. In academic classes, the academically talented student is generally expected to have an edge over the merely industrious.

Further complicating matters is that I am generally pretty supportive of mandatory PE in schools. Another possible wrinkle - ought there be honors PE available?

I'll have to ask my kids what they think - as well as what their PE grades were.

Is this a West-only policy or D87 wide? Anyone know an official explanation for the change? My understanding is that it was championed by a recently hired athletic chairman (or some similarly titled position I consider of questionable necessity.)

So what happens if you are in a sport? Do you still get waived out of PE if you are a football player or a badminton player?

If so....how are you graded?

FWIW, I think it is not that great an idea given what I know about it. Admittedly....that is not much.

Maybe some of my fellow neighbors can sue the district.

A terrible idea IMHO. PE as pointed out is fairly arbitrary and if some gym coach doesn't like you well there goes your grade.


Another example of D87/GW not listening.

No you don't get waivers. I read the letter from West and they claim that PE class instills leadership etc and thats why everyone will have to take it. Of course I thought that's what Varsity sports was supposed to do.

You're right it is just some empire building from a new hire.


"Those who can, do, those who can't, teach, those who can't even do that teach Gym"

Woody Allen.

When I was in HS, athletes had the option of becoming senior leaders in PE. If you got an endorsement from your coach(s), you signed up your junior year and went through various classes throughout the year that basically trained you to be an assistant to the PE teacher in your senior year. You were graded on how well you coached/worked with the Freshman & Sophomores. It wasn't an automatic "A", one quarter I was threatened with a "B" because I "participated" too much in team handball vs. coaching. What can I say, I loved team handball.

I thought it was a great program and help me learn more about sports than just being a participant.

quote:

Originally posted by Yossarian:
It wasn't an automatic "A", one quarter I was threatened with a "B" because I "participated" too much in team handball vs. coaching. What can I say, I loved team handball.

Team handball? Where did you go to HS - Albania?

Taxpayer, I agree to an extent. On one hand I had a psychotic ex-jock, Cro-Magnon PE "teacher" in 7th grade. This man of 6'2" 230 pounds relished annihilating kids in bombardment, his years of frustration as a has been coming through in every toss of the four square ball. This man had no business being around children in any capacity and I hope he rots in hell someday.

But the majority of PE teachers I had through my life were good people who did all the could to encourage ALL kids in their class to participate regardless of their skill level or physique.

When you look at the propagation of muffin top girls and Winnie the Pooh shaped boys, I think it was a mistake to drop PE from the curriculum. IMO-These classes when facilitated correctly provide good socialization for kids.

Dins-Hoffman Estates High School-We were very eclectic in the 70's.

I think PE's great - as long as the kids actually participate in the "physical" part.

I remember a lot of standing around and waiting in line in high school gym and not a lot of activity.

I NEVER took a shower after gym, never had to. My school had such physically strenuous rotations as juggling, archery and ping pong.

We had team handball at Willowbrook in the '70's. Fun game.

Team handball in Park Ridge in the late 80's/early 90's. Awesome sport.

quote:

Originally posted by Clamato:
We had team handball at Willowbrook in the '70's. Fun game.

Yeah, but you played it alone!

this is crap. my only f in high school: the quarter we did gymnastics. in those far away days in the last century: real uneven parrallel bars AND huge trampolines with classmates spotting you. glad to be alive.
i suspect upper tier universities will weight this right out of the GPA.
i'm more upset about no academic waivers. so does this mean choir/band/electives (like business,for example) lose out jr/sr. year?
why does this AD get to make these policy decisions? where is our leadership? (at least at West.)
and can someone tell me...does this gym into the GPA/no waivers policy only effect West,or is it at all 4 high schools (which would be only fair.)
what a crock.....

The leadership at West doesn't care. You think the schools are run for the the students. Wrong they're run for the Administrators, Teachers. The students are an afterthought.

Having PE count and removing the waivers is strictly done for the benefit of the PE department and its new leader.

Think of some kid who plays a sport, maybe they're not a starter but they're getting home at seven or eight at night. Why should they continue if they still have to go to PE.

Several years ago they started a late arrival program which worked great for the kids, especially if you were involved in a extracurricular activity. But they changed that back to early dismissal which of course doesn't help the kids at all.

Everyone knows that kids perform better if they are allowed to sleep in. Also if you had an after school activity you had to either go home and come back or wait around. Again this benefited the kids. So late arrival was replaced by early dismissal.

The people who run the schools only care about the children when its referendum time.

I am a big fan of PE. Not that it will improve the obesity situation much (diet is the primary factor here) but there are so many other benefits that it is worth it. However, I take big issue with it affecting GPA. The school's primary job is ACADEMIC preparation, not being a "farm club" for pro athletics. There must be some compromise that would give the student some incentive to work but not get in the way of future doctors etc.

I am less certain about waivers. Eliminating them means more students in PE and fewer in Art/Music/other electives. Some of these programs may have to cut way back and that would be a shame. I think they are just as important as PE. The give the less academically talented a chance to shine (like in PE) and also just to use a different part of their brain. In my case, being in band (yea, I was a band nerd) gave me a break from more academic pursuits. I actually did well in it.

Some schools eliminate waivers since students in PE use fewer teachers than students in academic classes, especially AP classes (more students per PE teacher). It saves money at the expense of academic opportunities for our above average students (and aren't they all "above average"????)

An unknown educator said, "Those who can't do, teach. Those who can't teach, administrate. Those who can't administrate, teach teachers. And those who can't teach teachers, write curricula."
The problem is that those who CAN do, are sometimes unable to teach it. Friends of mine who were professionals have tried teaching and failed. Teaching is an art, and slogans rarely fit reality.

In my opinion, having PE affect your GPA would be like making every kid take orchestra and learn a string instrument - and having that affect the GPA, regardless of ability. Not every child has the ability to learn and play an instrument well, of course. Same with PE.

Now, I AM of the opinion that PE should remain a requirement. (I also think every kid should have music, as well - a general music class, anyway - but that's not going to happen.) I just don't think it should affect the GPA. But like Dinsdale, my last one just graduated, so probably my opinion doesn't count.

My first reaction was that it would be okay so long as PE grades were awarded on effort, rather than ability. And I questioned whether I would trust the PE teachers I have known to fairly acknowledge effort, instead of favoring the athletically talented.

But then I realized that that was inconsistent with the way I felt academic classes should be graded. Your effort should only go so far if you don't get the correct answer. In academic classes, the academically talented student is generally expected to have an edge over the merely industrious.
[/QUOTE]

I see your thinking on this one, but the problem to me is that they are 2 different skills sets. My feeling is that when colleges look at student GPAs they are using them to assess a child's academic success. PE (with the exception of health, maybe?) is not academic-so, while grading it w/regards to results (like academics) is fine with me-averaging it into the GPA rubs me wrong. Yes, the academically talented kid has an edge over the merely industrius...much like the athletically talented kids probably have an edge over the "hard working athletes" when it comes to positions on the high school teams. That is acceptable, but let's keep them separate when it comes to measurement.

hg

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Ted E.,

And - correct me if I'm wrong - but don't most colleges, when looking at prospective students' transcripts, automatically drop PE grades if they ARE factored in? So it seems like a colossal waste of effort to factor them in at the high school level.

Asked 2 of my kids last night, and they said they got nothing but As in PE. Said basically all you needed to do was show up - often didn't even have to participate. Don't know if that will change as well.

If PE is counted as part of your GPA then that factors in, in your class rank. One thing universities look for is your class rank or what percentage you graduated in.

Top ten percent, top five. So if you get a B instead of an A in PE then you can possibly drop out of say top ten ranking. So while the college maybe able to factor out your PE grades in your GPA they probably won't be able to change your class ranking.

For what it’s worth, I heard an interesting argument as to why all kids should take PE, and why it should count.

High school is the last chance to test “everything” and to find something you really like, so you can then focus on it when you pick a college major.

Sports is a HUGE business... but only a tiny fraction of those who work in it are working athletes. Think of the business of the Olympics... the NFL... MLB and the PGA. The billions generated by sports merchandising... stadium architecture... exercise equipment... running shoes... amateur and pro promotion and advertising...

Together, these and other sports-related businesses require armies of MBA managers, sales and marketing people, legal experts, engineers, designers, bean counters, IT geeks, PR pros, technicians, sports medicine practicioners... almost any behind-the-scenes specialty that any business requires, the sports businesses require.

Most of us don’t have a stand-alone craft... we have to practice that craft in a particular field. With luck, it’s a field we appreciate, respect and enjoy.

You can be a gung-ho sports fan — and excel at understanding and earning a good living at it — without ever suiting up and going on a field.

Meaning... few kids who play group handball (or whatever) in high school are going to go on to be highly paid professional group handball players... but... dealing with it and other sports in school gives them a chance to experience teamwork, playing by the rules, score keeping, scheduling, coaching, entertaining others, that life isn’t fair and about the joy of victory and the agony of defeat.

You’ve got to do it in real life to truly understand. Playing video football ain’t going to help you someday design and market better artificial turf and stadium lighting.

So if a kid has a talent for numbers — and develops an appreciation for athletics — he or she could go on to become a Financial VP for the NFL.

Not all kids have a natural affinity for math... so to be straight-A students, they have to make an extra effort in algebra. Same with language skills... history... most anything. If PE doesn’t come easy, work at it. Again, a working knowledge of sports doesn’t mean you have to become a pro athlete.

This is not my argument, and it probably lost something in my translation. But I found it interesting because it gives a view of why kids should be exposed to — and work to do well in — all options offered n high school. —Ted E.